The Unseen Realm - A Missionary's Journey Reveals Biblical Realities

 

Christian Elliot

All right, hello, everyone. Welcome back to part two of my conversation with Mr. Mark Grennan. So in the last episode, I got to tell you more. He got to tell you more about kind of the James Bond version of his story. And in this episode, I wanted to give you a chance to talk about just the larger picture of your work as a missionary, which, like I said, reminds me kind of of the New Testament Book of Acts from time time. So in the backdrop of your work as a missionary, you're also a father of eight. You any homeschooled all your kids. And I have six kids and I thought that was a lot. So.

 

Wow, well done. ⁓ So welcome back to the show, Mark. Thanks for joining me.

 

Mark Grenon

It's good to be back. Well, I'm done with the homeschooling. The oldest is the youngest is 20. Let's see. Twenty six. And he has his own company. So I guess homeschooling. It's back to boy. That's thirty six. Thirty seven. He was in jail with me. He works for him. So.

 

They like to do ⁓ technical work for computers and stuff. So he spent homeschool. My oldest son writes programs for Apple and has three companies. Homeschool.

 

Christian Elliot

Dang. OK, so you've got

 

hope. Yes, I was going for the win here. Like, I've only gotten one graduated so far, but I'm excited to continue the journey for the rest of them. I can't imagine doing it any other way now.

 

Mark Grenon

Well, the reason why we did because we were missionaries and we basically had to. But she was also doing it before we came to be missionaries. We were also homeschooling. So I'm a skeptic at heart, even with this chlorine dioxide that I went to jail from with the Bible. I was 19 years old.

 

Christian Elliot

Mm-hmm

 

Mark Grenon

really 17, hitchhiking around the country with my buddy from school, high school. And we went from Boston to Florida, Florida to California, California to Washington state, working, preparing power, picking apples, doing whatever we could do, trying to find ourselves. And I'd run into a few people, Christians, would say, you need to look the Bible. I well,

 

I grew up as a Catholic, then my family switched to Mormonism. They seemed to study more, but it wasn't the Bible. It was the Book of Mormon and the Bible. So I was just kind of like, yeah, I'm not religious. I'm still not religious. So when the person asked me, after hitchhiking around the country, if I knew for sure where I would be spending eternity, I told them.

 

I don't. I hope and basically pray. I wasn't a prayer. Prayer, although that's not true. I should back up a little bit because this is wild. I got married from Hitchhiking. After I was hitchhiking, I met my wife, my brother's wife's best friend. OK, we all live in the same town. We all kind of knew each other.

 

went to school together, but she was in the cheerleading jock area. I was in the hippie ⁓ group. Even though I liked football, played sports, but I was more hippie. So we met, set us up to meet. We met, really hit it off. Six weeks we were married. I was thinking, maybe that's what's missing in my life I need to get.

 

Married. Have a family. I've traveled all over America. So I guess I'll get married. So I got married and this is what's wild. I said to my wife, and I'm not a prayer. I said, you know what? You kind of get spiritual when you get married. I said, every night, hun, let's get, before we go to bed, let's pray and ask God to guide our lives. That's all we're doing.

 

I prayed because as the last church I was part of, I prayed to the Father in heaven and I ended in Jesus name. Okay? And asking God to guide us. Not going to church, not religious or nothing, but the Bible says, seek me, you shall find me when you search for me with your whole heart. And I was doing it with an honest heart, my wife and I. So God put some Jesus freaks right across the

 

all from us. Okay, I call them Jesus freaks back then. Every time I walked out to do and they saw us, hey, Mark, they were Puerto Ricans. And I loved Puerto Rican rice and beans. So they make me some Puerto Rican rice and beans. My wife came a little friendly with her. And so one day, they always asked us to go to church. Sunday, man, I work all week in construction.

 

I am going to relax and watch football, have a beer, chill out, because I work Monday. So they ended up, they ended up keeping asking us nicely. So no, no, no thank you. So one day I come home from work, my wife's all dressed up, we had had a fight. This is like a month after we were married, we had had a fight of stupidity.

 

I want to go out my friends just to go be with my friends because I lived down where I grew up. She didn't want me to, so was a stupid fight. Anyways, I come home that day. I went to work mad thinking, I wonder if I should stay married. I don't know. This marriage stuff, now she's restricting me. You know? This ain't right. I wasn't doing anything bad. So I come home.

 

My wife's all dressed up, beautiful. Has a beautiful spaghetti dinner for me. Like, what's going on? Because I'm sorry, we're fighting with you. I shouldn't have ever did that. You should be able to go out with your friends. Okay. Okay, thanks, honey. We sit down, we, as we're eating, she goes, well, she goes, I got to tell you something happened to me today. Like what? She goes, when you left, I was thinking.

 

I'm gonna divorce this bum. I'm not kidding. This is what she's thinking on the front steps crying of the apartment building. She's thinking that, but I'm thinking that too. I'm gonna divorce. Yeah, it worth it. The lady, the Jesus freak lady comes out names of Amy. What's the matter, Bob? She tells the story, come on in, have some tea. She was in there for four hours.

 

Amy started showing her, the Bible is what you need, Barb. This will straighten you out. This is the history of the world. It's funny. It's called history. It's called his story. Think about it. The word history, you could hyphenate it, his story. Story of who? God, right? So anyways, make a long story short, Barb said,

 

Christian Elliot

Yes.

 

Mark Grenon

Every question I had, no matter what it was, she'd open the Bible and say, look at this truth. Because God said about this, she goes to the point where when Amy asked me, Bob, do you have peace in your life? Not really. Do you want to know God and him to know you? Yeah. Do you know where you're going to do? Do want to know where you're going to spend eternity? Bible says you can.

 

Yeah, that day she got saved. prayed. she was telling me, Mark, I don't know the ins and outs of it, but I asked the Lord to save me. And now it makes sense. Christmas, know, crucifixion, that makes sense to me now. God had to do that and to pay our penalty because we couldn't pay it. Michael, that's cool. You know, give me my beer.

 

I my spaghetti. I forgot all about it, but she changed. I forgot all about it. Two weeks goes by. My dad calls me and my brother. We had a construction refinishing company. He calls me from Missouri, Springfield, Missouri. He why don't you guys come down here? Stop working in 19 below zero weather and doing siding and house roofs and doors.

 

Christian Elliot

Hmm.

 

Mark Grenon

Come down here, it's a mild winter. So me and my brother said, you know what? We're sick of this too. Let's move. So this is what gets crazy.

 

We asked the people across the hall to come by because we were leaving. Bob was getting friendly with us. We're leaving within a week to go to Missouri. And because we our own company, we just finished our last job. We took off. So they come over and Bob made them spaghetti. They were eating, we're talking. So they go, so where are you going? We're going to Springfield, Missouri. I saw her and her husband.

 

look at each other like they saw a ghost. Like they didn't say anything. Why Springfield, Missouri? My father, ⁓ okay. We ate. They went home. We left a couple of days later. Drove Springfield, Missouri, started walking. We took off because we are workers. The guys would go fishing, skip work. There was like 10 teams at this siding.

 

gutter, window replacement, home improvement company. Within four or five months, we were the number one crew. Everybody wanted us to do their house. We bent metal. We were really good at what we did. Anyways, after six months, Bob gets a call from that lady, Amy. They moved to Springfield, Missouri. Out of all places on earth, they had been praying.

 

There was a Bible college here called Baptist Bible College, and they were praying on whether they should go. God show us a sign if we should go to Springfield, Missouri. And that night when I told them we're going to Springfield, Missouri, they're like, that must be the sign. The girl that just got saved is moving down there. We need to talk to her husband. Let's go to Springfield, Missouri. Let's go there to Bible College. So they invited me.

 

and her, my wife, over for Puerto Rican rice and beans. Sure, I'll be there. We started eating, talking just about what we're doing, what they're doing, till three in the morning. But after a couple hours, they brought out the Bible. And I was more of a pain in the neck than my wife. I was like, wait, what about this? What about that? What about this? What about that?

 

And they were like really good in the Bible. Like, well, Bible says this. I'm saying, so you're telling me that book knows everything about everything a man could want to know and he answers for it. Yep. You're telling me if I come because they explained the gospel, explain what Jesus did, how we could never pay our price, how he was the lamb of God and explained a lot. It wasn't just quickly. I said, you're telling me.

 

If I bow my head right now and accept what he did for me, he'll pay for all my sins. And I had a lot of them from high school and all my sins. And he'll write my name in the Lamb's Book of Life. And I'll be accepted by him, not because of what I'm doing, my works, but it's a gift he'll give me. Yes, I want that. And I prayed. My prayer was something like, Lord, if you'll take me.

 

I want you, I believe what it says. If the Bible is true and I'm speaking rhetorically, if that's your word and I learned later that what things we're going to talk about, how real it really is, I want that. I want that. So I bowed my head and prayed. And I felt like, almost like Pilgrim's Progress, when Pilgrim had that weight fall off his back at the cross.

 

If you remember that scene, felt like, wow, I just feel different. I feel relieved. Didn't know the ins and outs of it. But we went, we didn't even go to sleep that night. We went to the International House of Pancakes. It was called back in 1978. Before it was called IHOP. We just sat there, just like amazed. I was amazed.

 

My wife was excited. How'd they find us? How'd they know it was crazy? So, little did I know, my wife had sent a few letters to her, so they had our address. They tracked us down. But I'm like, we gotta tell our family. This book is what, I never really knew what was in it. This book is really what it says. And what's in it, everybody needs to know about this.

 

We went home with the bed, you know, slept. But that Sunday, I was at, because my dad, my sister, my brother, his kids, my wife, we'd have Sunday together, because none of us went to church. We'd have Sunday together. I love my family's cooking. I stood up at the table. And so I got to tell you guys something. They're all looking up, what? They thought,

 

My wife was pregnant. That's they told me later. I got to you something really important. They all look at me, what? Said this week, and I told them that story. This is what happened to me. And I was a punk kid growing up. My dad had a lot of, my mom had a lot of problem with me. My brother was the good guy. I never gave him, or my sister, any problems. I gave him all the problems. So, my dad goes, good Mark, I'm happy for you.

 

Everybody's like good, let's eat. So we ate. But there was a burning in my soul. I got to tell more people. My family needs to know first of all. And like I found out later, Jeremiah 20. Jeremiah tells the Lord, you deceived me, I'm done. I'm never going to speak about your word again. Because every time they beat me up, they throw me in prison.

 

I'm going to shut up. And then he said, there was like a fire in his bosom. He couldn't shut up. And that's what I was like. We'd be out working. And I'd be telling the homeowner, hey, you know what happened to me? I couldn't explain a lot of stuff. You know what happened to me? I tell him this. And then I started going to church because of the people that showed me. Said, now come to church. I go, yeah, I want to go to church now. I want to go to Sunday school. I want to learn this book.

 

I want to go Sunday night. I want to learn this book. So I was learning and learning and God's put in my heart. I want you to teach and preach the Word of God. I'm like, Lord, that ain't gonna happen. I stumble, I fumble. not gonna, my voice isn't too strong. I'm not gonna preach. I'll be a good believer. I'll help others. I'll tell people, but it kept burdening.

 

Burden me, burden me. So one day I told my brother, I'm gonna quit and go to Bible college. He goes, what, why? Because I have to quit because if I don't quit, I can't work, I'll go to Bible college. One or the other. What are you gonna do for work? No idea, I quit. So I rolled in Bible college without a job. I had a little money saved up because we did pretty good.

 

I'd say about a month. I was going to Bible college, praying.

 

Some the guys that worked at the Bible, that went to school, this company only liked our, to hire people from that Bible college because they were honest. They wouldn't steal from them. We were making it's a woodworking plan. So they hired me. I was there the whole three years. I was in Bible college. Now I got a job and I had the third shift. So I could go to school, sleep a little bit.

 

Go to work by 11.

 

come home at seven, run across the street, go to Bible college, sleep a little bit, study a little bit, go back to school. Did that, I did four years of college and three. And every course I took, Bible, Bible. Other people thinking, know, philosophy or Christian college, I took Job. They want, I took all Bible courses. I want to know this book. You know, I took, ⁓

 

history, biblical archaeology. I took everything I could took that would show me that this book is real. Plus I'd go to church learning, listening to missionaries come. This church was huge. It was like 3,000 people. I started driving a bus, inviting kids to come to church. We had 600 kids. We're taking the church on buses. So, and little kids would come and their parents are drunk.

 

I dress them up and you know, because the parents knew me, take them to children's church. I'm growing. God says to me about a year after, I want you to be a missionary. What? Missionary? Now I'm teaching even. My Sunday school class. So that's my salvation experience in my Bible learning. So God tells me, go back to Massachusetts and start a church.

 

because I grew up there never hearing the word of God. Now, I don't know the whole Bible. You know, I don't know what you, how you feel, but every time I read this book, it shows me something else. This book is alive. People go, I've heard this saying, it's not original by me. It's not how many times you go through the Bible that counts. It's how many times the Bible goes through you that counts.

 

So I'd read it, read it, read it, study it. And I found a church, really, it was only six months old. There was a guy that went to the same school as mine, from Massachusetts. He had this little group of like 15 people, right? He goes, come up here, get a job and I'll help. You know, we'll help you, but we can't pay you. I said, good, at least I'm in Massachusetts. I go up there.

 

I get a job and I start going out on Saturdays and Sundays, talking to people, bringing their kids ⁓ to Sunday school, right? In six weeks, the church grew about hundred people, right? Because people are getting saved. And so he goes, hey, I want you here full time with me. You stay here. And it looks like there's enough money. You're not making much money. This was 19.

 

No, sorry, 82. You know, I was making pretty good money as a woodworker, but they said, I think we can pay you rent and stuff like that. So we did. A year later, he leaves and I become the pastor. And it's the fastest growing church in Massachusetts because all we did, Christian, was teach the Bible. No philosophies, nothing.

 

Just that book. I had MIT professors coming. I had doctors. I had state troopers. I had ex-hookers. Some of them might not even been ex-hookers. I'm just saying. We had everybody, drug addicts. They just wanted to learn the Bible. I'd have debates. I'd have the Joe Wittons come in. Tell us what you believe. Then I'd open a Bible and show the church. This is what the Bible says. I'd have...

 

Mormons Catholic priests Everybody come in because I wanted people to be Be able to use that book Okay, and we got involved with missions. We wanted to help missions get around the world the last thing Jesus said as he ascended into heaven on Mount of Olives and I've been there is Go into all the world and tell them you shall be witnesses unto me both Jerusalem Judea Samaria

 

in the othermost parts of the earth. And God says to me, go. Well, I got a big church. goes, I want you to go. And what happened was we started sending these track ministries, a little track is a little pamphlet with the word of God in it, right? And these track ministries, they get them around back from the whole world. I accepted the Lord. And it's from Uganda or Nigeria.

 

in different places, but a lot were coming from Nigeria. So we started sending them the book of John and the book of Romans, two books of the New Testament and a little Bible course so they could start from those two books. Bro, we had 40,000 responses from Nigeria in a year. So I gotta go, man. We had about 10 people that stood out. They were going through the Bible courses.

 

Christian Elliot

Thank

 

Mark Grenon

really quick. So we picked those 10 out. I told the church, I need to go over there, visit these 10 people and see what's going on. See if it's a scam. So me and the guy that's the pastor now, because I left there, black guy, I figured, oh, he's going to be called there. He's a black guy going to Nigeria. We get there, we find some good people really stunning, even trying to start churches. And we're like, wow.

 

So as I'm coming back, God says to me, go to Nigeria, resign the church. I'm like, what? We're thinking about buying a piece of land, a building, church. We went from 15 people to 600. We're growing like crazy. Lord, are you sure? I can't, you you sure, right? God, are you sure? And go. All right, Lord, I'll tell you what.

 

I gotta go preach at this place when I'm all right driving home. Listen, I was in a mission conference. They wanted me to preach what we were doing. So I come back and I said, Lord, I'll go if my wife doesn't give me any problem whatsoever. We just bought a house. We got three kids and we're living okay. Not rich, but good. The church is good. If she says,

 

When I tell her that I want to go to Nigeria, she just says, okay, let's go. I'll do it. And I'm thinking, good, I got him. I don't think, I don't look, don't think she's going to say that. So I'm up in the morning. I come back from this, I'm really, really perplexed would be the word. I'm sitting out in the living room, two in the morning, thinking, I don't know, Lord. I'm thinking of all the reasons why not to go.

 

I'm trying to leave these people. You gotta buy one, Stu. You've been training men. They'll, eh, took away all my excuses. Then my wife walks up, walks out, feeds the baby. She goes, why are you up? I go, I gotta tell you something. She's feeding the baby. I go, God called me to go to Nigeria, I think. I think. She goes, okay, wherever God wants us. I go, man, I didn't want to hear that. Yeah, did not want to hear

 

Christian Elliot

You

 

got to commission right then.

 

Mark Grenon

So, because I knew so many people that wanted me to preach for them and knew a lot of people in Massachusetts and New England, ⁓ in around the country because I went to school with a lot of people, I raised the money to go to Nigeria in three months. I raised $4,000 a month in three months just making phone calls because they knew me, knew what I was doing. Yeah, we'll back you.

 

Who's taking the church? Tell Walter. Sure, he's a good guy. So in like four months, I was in Nigeria. That's how quick it happened. now, let me tell you some wild stuff that happened in Nigeria.

 

Christian Elliot

Well, let me have an interject here. I've heard a few different of your interviews lately and you have some of the experiences that make some of the weirdest parts of the Bible make sense. they're not just fairy tales. Some of the stories you told, I paused the video, pushed my chair back and I was like, what? Wow. I guess if you can start with these stories that you've got or the things you've experienced, we'll kind of frame a biblical

 

Mark Grenon

Your what?

 

Christian Elliot

worldview from a high level. So talk about, I guess, your understanding of heaven and the angelic and demonic realm, and just to give people some intellectual pegs to hang some of the stories you're about to tell them on. Sure.

 

Mark Grenon

Sure, because it's a spiritual book. And you go to Isaiah 14, you to Ezekiel 28, you're gonna read about, in fact, I'm writing a book right now about a king and his kingdom called The Government of God. There's only one government, as it says in Isaiah 9, 6. The government shall be upon his shoulder. It says, a child will be born, a virgin shall conceive, and his name shall be called.

 

Wonderful counselor the mighty God the Prince of Peace the everlasting father and the government shall be upon his shoulder So the only government that really exists that's eternal is God's government. Okay, so There's a spiritual realm. It started out with God's creation Before him there was nothing because he always existed. There was no creation. He existed then he said, know ⁓

 

I'm paraphrasing because Genesis 1, I'm going to make man in my own image. And that's interesting in itself. We're the only creatures created by God that can love, speak. We're made in his think, build, design. know, other creatures do limited things. You might get a

 

I was with a guy, this is a story I never told you I was with a guy in Ecuador that guy named Patrick Flanagan for six months He was a genius at 13 years old He taught dolphins He learned their language and taught the military how to talk to the dolphins so they could go look for mines I mean bro, Yeah, there's a whole story in that I had breakfast with him every day for six months He was a believer

 

Christian Elliot

Wow.

 

Mark Grenon

and he needed new chlorine dioxide too but I'm getting off the track so you got Lucifer beautiful Lucifer beautiful cherub above the throne of God the music was made in him God made music come out of him it's the first time you hear about music Lucifer and pride got into his it says because he was so beautiful you'd walk

 

into the throne room of God and you'd see God and God looks like us or we look like him beard hair it says it many times throughout the scriptures he's sitting there people come into the throne people come into the throne and you see this beautiful thing above him that's I'm sure even the angels would look up and go spectacular right spectacular he covered the throne of God God made it to look spectacular

 

So, he, through pride, says, I'm going to sit upon that throne. And a third of the angels say, yeah, we think you can do it. Well, he's not the creator. It's a long story short. He says he cast him down to earth, to hell, he made a hell. But then him, he cast him down to earth. Simultaneously, you got Adam there.

 

Gannum's gonna be on the scene, Satan's fallen, and that's the creation and the problems that we've had. And you know that the Bible says in Romans chapter two that God put in every man and woman the word of God. It's called the conscience that will accuse or excuse you and say, put it in us. And that's why he could make the declaration in Psalm 19.

 

say the word of God is all over the world no matter where goes everybody can see creation and speak there's no language where God's voice is not heard and he put it in Psalm 19 it says it's in the testimony of a man too so all men are without excuse because they can see creation I'll tell you a story in Nigeria because this will follow right what I'm talking about I came into a village

 

I went to help another missionary deliver a bunch of material. I come up to this village and it's dark. There's no lights in the jungle. Just my Volkswagen bus. I call it the Jesus buggy. Right? said missionary on the front so they wouldn't harass me. I come up to this village and we're lost in this jungle. Right? In these like 20, 30 huts. There's people around a fire out front. And in Nigeria, lot of people speak English.

 

Majority speak English, but they had the tribal tongue. So I said in my name you're gonna speak slow my name, know missionary much I want to talk to you for a minute No, listen, they'd let me come to a school in the morning and open up in prayer Speak to them about the Bible 15 years before school any school anytime in Nigeria, right? So they'd stand they'd sit in there come in they call me. you know, you know white man

 

So I come up and I always have a microphone because my voice, right? So I start telling them, go, look up. They all look up, see those stars? See that moon? Who made that? Who made that? They're creator, God. And they're not religious people, you know, I okay, how about that palm tree, banana tree, this and that, that chicken. Chickens walking around.

 

And God, well, let me tell you a story about what God did. And I tell him about how God became man, dwelt among us, became flesh. And I teach him that story. Bro, the whole village, when I asked him, would you like to have him save you? Would you like to have him be part and accept what he did for your sin? We're all sinners. Everybody, the whole village. Yes, yes.

 

And they did. So the Bible says that the Bible about itself is quick and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword. pierces to the stolen spirit and the joints of marrow and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of our heart, not our head, our heart, which is tied to our

 

Christian Elliot

Okay, well, so talk about I remember hearing you tell a story about ⁓ seeing a giant skeleton. So then the book of Genesis, chapter six, and then you also mentioned the book of Enoch, it talks about this angelic realm coming down. And there's this essentially incursion, there's this mingling of the angelic realm in the human realm. And so talk about

 

those three, the Genesis Six, the Enoch, the giant skeleton you've seen. Where were you? What was that like?

 

Mark Grenon

crazy. ⁓ Genesis 6, there's a book called the Book of Enoch, which I think is an extra biblical writing that could really be true, ⁓ written by maybe Enoch, that the fallen angels came down and the Bible talks about them. They had physical relationship. Remember, the angels might even look like us and every time you see an angel in the Bible looks like a man, okay?

 

at one of the forms of the angels. And so they had relationship, and these giants came up. So I like history, I like studying, so I started finding giant skulls, pictures of them from around the world. And I'm talking about skulls that were three feet tall. Skull, just a skull. So in relationship to the body, these giants could have been...

 

35, 40, 50 feet tall. And the Bible says when they came out of the spies that went into ⁓ Canaan, they came back. They said, we were like grasshoppers in their sight. So if a man stand next to a grasshopper, thing he's looking at could be 50, 60 feet high. Well, in Ecuador, there was a statue there that a priest was hiding and it's called the

 

Valley of the Giants. Weird. This area called Bilcabamba, there's a mountain that looks like a giant laying down. Okay? Crazy. Well, they found this statue. can even, not statue, excuse me, skeleton. You can even look it up. Loja, L-O-J-H, Ecuador, skeleton. It's 35 feet tall.

 

They put it back together after this priest died, had it. They put it back together to the museum. It's 35 feet tall. can see it in Loja, Ecuador. Now, also, the Smithsonian Institute, Smithsonian Institute was established by Mr. Smithstone to study two things, the Hollow Earth and Giants. They had

 

all kinds of skeletons. They used to be all again pictures of them but they destroyed all the pictures and they destroyed all the skeletons in early 1900s because they didn't want people to know what was going on there. But yeah all over the world you can look them up you can find giants, giants, giant skeletons. They found femurs that are six or seven feet so the femur is six and five seven feet long.

 

That means a giant's 30 or 42 tall. Remember the mythology? Jason and the Argonauts, where they had the one-eyed giant. Those things are real. And that's a good way of explaining how those rocks get on the pyramid. Those guys can pick those. A few giants could just pick them up. All four giants. It doesn't matter how these guys are strong, right? So maybe that's the excuse for that.

 

So I believe what those things talk about the Bible is God always give you evidence. Let me give you another thing. Babylon, right? Babylon. It was there. They know where it was. These are historical sites. The Bible says in the last days with the Euphrates in the Tigris rivers, there's four angels chained up and one day it's gonna dry up. And by the way, it's almost dried up.

 

in the last days it will dry up and there's four angels under the Euphrates. Guess what they're hearing now? You can go on YouTube and you can hear the screams of, it sounds like screams in the caves.

 

Christian Elliot

I've not heard that one.

 

Mark Grenon 

about

 

this. In Russia, they dug, they wanted to dig the biggest, they wanted to see how thick the crust was. So they dug the deepest well, not well, but hole borehole. went down 23 feet, I believe in Siberia, right? And they hit a, like a cavern. They pulled it up. When they pulled it up, to build the,

 

The drill bit was glowing red. So they hit a fire, right? They said, we got to punch through this. There's nothing we can drill with now. But one guy had the idea, and these were all engineers, all atheists. They had an idea. Let's put a microphone down here. So they did. They put it down, and it only lasted 15 seconds, because as soon as it hit, the real hot pot had melted. But for 15 seconds,

 

All they could hear was screaming. You can listen to this on YouTube, the screams of the damned in hell. It was on a newspaper article in Russia. They kept it and they all became believers. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, it's a historical site in Siberia. There's newspaper articles about it. So these things are real.

 

Christian Elliot

Wow. I not heard that one either.

 

Yeah, well another one that I've known about for a while now, you got to go to Mount Ararat and see Noah's Ark. that's No. Okay.

 

Mark Grenon

I'm sorry, I have the newspaper article, the guide it went. I have all the facts. We wrote a book about all the pictures. I was going there before they arrested me. It's a museum. You can look it up. You can see the boat. It's the exact same dimensions as it's described in the book of Genesis. Exactly. There's chambers inside that were big enough.

 

Christian Elliot

Okay, that's what it is.

 

Mark Grenon

to house everything. Remember this, they didn't take a full giant, excuse me, giraffe. They didn't take a full elephant. They took babies. This is why the Ark could handle all those. They didn't take a full lion, lion, and probably ate them. They took the cubs. They were here and you raise a cub, they won't eat you. They love you. know, people raise them. So, that's plenty of space.

 

all the animals on earth at the time in their young time period of growth, Young, not babies, but small.

 

Christian Elliot

Yeah, and so that comes up. That's why since high school, I've been fascinated by that one. And I would challenge people listening to this to consider the archaeological record or the more the geological record through the lens of what if that was true? And best example would actually be the Grand Canyon. So just entertain the idea of a whole lot of water in a little bit of time rather than a little bit of water over a really long time and see if the evidence doesn't.

 

make you scratch your head and think differently about it. Anything else you wanna add on that one?

 

Mark Grenon

Well, the thing is, you got evil, you got good. Everybody knows that. You don't have to talk to anybody that is bad and is good. You can tell the difference. ⁓ Well, why would the evil of this universe, this world, want evidence that the Bible's true out? They wouldn't. So they suppress it. You don't hear about it, right? Give you another one.

 

Christian Elliot

Mm-hmm.

 

Mark Grenon

When they crossed the Red Sea, I haven't been there either, but I've got all the articles, I've got all the pictures, and I was headed there and they arrested me. This is the places, I'll tell you the places I have been. So they found from Egypt to Saudi Arabia, it's 3000 feet deep or more in the Red Sea, but in this one section called Neblis Beach. I think I'm pronouncing that right. It goes up to...

 

900 feet and it's like a mile wide and it goes all the way across to Saudi Arabia. Solomon do it. Solomon put a post on either side and they found those posts and they even said on those big columns that what happened there, okay? But they dove there and not at the 900 foot level but going down they found chariots, swords, bones, gold chariot. They found all that stuff.

 

So that's where the crossing was, right? Why won't they tell us about that in high school, right? They get on the other side. He goes to this well, I mean, excuse me, these palm trees, and with this poison water, that's still there. He goes to Mount Sinai, gets the Ten Commandments. That mountain is burnt. All the other mountains are fine. You can look this up on Google Maps.

 

It's burnt. And his Bible says the top was burnt. He comes down, they have an altar to the golden calf. And there's an altar there with all kinds of bulls scribed on it. And it's fenced in by the Saudi Arabian government. It says, do not come here trying to find gold. It says in English and in Arabic, right? The wells are there, excuse me, the columns.

 

They set up for the 12 tribes in there. The rock that Moses hit, it's like 30 feet tall. It's split right in the middle. like this water came out of it, no water now. But you could see where washed away the limestone all the way down to the valley. Those hits are there.

 

Christian Elliot

Yeah. I was like in high school and I've seen different pictures of it because at one point probably, I don't know, five or 10 years ago, I had the thought, I wonder if you could see this on Google Earth. So I went and looked at it yesterday to see what was there. So years ago, what you're talking about was all over. You could click and had pins all over in the geol or the pictures of that from space, however high they were. And those pictures it had, here's the altar.

 

And you can see it, there's a golden calf inscribed on it. It had the split rock, which has burnt rock right next to it. has the summit, it has the cave, it had the boundary markers, all of it was mapped. And now it's all that scrubbed and you get a link to Wikipedia that basically says, this isn't the real Mount Sinai. Some weirdos just think it is. Of course they would, that's what they would do. They would take all of that evidence away and not make it easy to find now.

 

Mark Grenon

That's, would you do that? This is what they did to me in court. They didn't show any evidence that would make me look good in court. That's what a lawyer does. Prosecution does. They don't want you to be right. They want you to be wrong. So now I'll fast forward to 2019. That's what I had in my head before. My son, John and I, and he's still in prison, but nothing. Him and I, him and myself and our wives, we go to Israel.

 

What do we do? We go there, we rent a car, we open our Bible. No tourists. Yeah, we're no tour guide or anything. We know the Bible. We're going to go and check these places out. OK, one of the places we go, which is really cool, is a place called Masana. This is a history of 70 AD. They ran. They ran there to basically the last.

 

you know, survival as the Jews, the Romans are going to attack them. And this is the last stronghold. They ended up building a bridge, took them two years. They end up before they get there, they slit their throat. But I don't know if you know this, the verse that's there is out of Ezekiel that they would come back in the land, Ezekiel 36. That's the verse they found at Masada. Now, when you're up at Masada and you look down,

 

You're looking right down on Gomorrah. That's the city of Gomorrah right there. Sodom is Southland, right? Then you got Amnon, it's a boring. They're all four cities next to the Red Sea, part through a cresp, okay? So me and my son John, we go down there. We don't listen to any signs. You know, it says don't come here. We go in there, walk in. There's a sphinx at the beginning of all those cities.

 

as finks, you know, you know, the

 

which they call a ziggurat at the beginning of all the cities. We go over to the finks, sphynx, and we're, because now this is all ash. You could touch it, it's just ash, ash. And really it's, the chemical name of it is sodium sulfate, right? So we're hearing other people, we knew this guy named Ron Wyatt that discovered a lot of stuff, man. I wish I knew about.

 

When I knew about glowing oxide, could probably could eradicate the cancer. He probably got the cancer from doing all the radiation when they were looking for Noah's Ark. They used these radiate ground radiation things where they could find everything. That's probably where he got his cancer. But anyways, we start chipping into it. We find the balls about this big, different sizes. And I knew it because I saw other people do it. I got to these.

 

We've got about 10 or 15 of them. And we cut them open and it's sulfur that's 95 to 99 % pure. It only exists in those four cities. Nowhere on earth, the closest concentration you can find or percentage of sulfur you can find is 45 to 50 % near a volcano. These are 95 or more, right? And that, when you light them,

 

They just, it's crazy how they light. You can only change limestone, which those cities were made of into sodium, no, calcium sulfate by something that burns at 6,000 degrees. And that's what pure sulfur burns at, 6,000 degrees. So we're at Sodom and Gomorrah, well, we're at Gomorrah in evidence.

 

things came out of heaven, burned the city to ashes, St. Bernard, 6,000 degrees, and there's another evidence. You could go, we walked over to...

 

I went to ⁓ Hebron, Hebron, right? We want to go to Hebron where ⁓ Abraham, Isaac, Jacob was married, married, not buried, buried, not married, buried, and their wives except Sarah, I mean, Rebecca, Rachel, excuse me, Rachel, she was buried outside of Bethlehem. So we go there and Hebron and

 

You're looking in this cave, the cave that they bought, Abraham bought. And you look down and that's where those guys are buried. Wow. Then I hear in town, there's the place where the angels met Abraham when they were going to Sodom and Gomorrah with the Lord to burn Sodom and Gomorrah, those cities. So really, there's an oak tree there.

 

It's called Abraham's Hulk. Where is it? telling you, we got a guy that's driving us. We did get a guy because you can't drive a rental car that has Israeli plates on it because they'll stone you. They'll throw stones at you. So we got a Palestinian Christian guy from Bethlehem named Joseph drove us there because he has Palestinian plates. So I go, we find a place. It's closed. It's a holiday.

 

But I had telephone number. I go, Joseph, call. He calls. The guy says, no, we're closed today. know, whatever they talking about. know, talking like an Indian, not a, any, he goes, listen, I can tell him I'll give him a hundred bucks. He opens the gate, 30 minutes. All of a the guy comes down, right? Opens the gate, we go in, locks the gate, and go over to Abraham's Oak. 5,000 year old tree, right?

 

5,000, then it's got two other ones next to it. It just died the week before we got there. But right out of the middle of it is a new sprout coming out of it. So we took pictures, did a little interview there about a 5,000 year old tree, and he gave me a piece of it. I got a piece of that oak tree that's 5,000 years old. Okay. There we go to Jerusalem, right?

 

The Garden of Gethsemane is the Garden of Gethsemane. Gethsemane means the oil press. It's kind of, you know, Jesus being pressed there, they pressed oil there. So there's a 2500 year olive tree there, right there. That was 500 years old. When Jesus walked this earth, that tree, we kind of, we got a piece of that too. It was all chained up and everything. But the God liked, really liked it.

 

our beautiful wives, because they're Colombian, and they asked, hey, could you get us a piece of that tree? ⁓ sure. And he gave it to them. That's a good lesson to always have a beautiful life with you when you're in Israel. Remember that. Do you hear me still?

 

I lost you.

 

Christian Elliot

Yeah, I'm still here. No, that is a good lesson to remember is to have your beautiful wife with you wherever you go. Very nice. All right. Well, any other Old Testament related stories where you've seen some of these sites where it's just kind of blown your mind, like the stuff that you would think maybe the Bible wasn't true here and you found out, sure enough, I've been there. I've seen it. I know it is now.

 

Mark Grenon

Well, I went to the place of this call. You probably went there, right? You saw the

 

Christian Elliot

Calgary? Golgotha? okay, yeah. Golgotha? Yeah.

 

Mark Grenon

Yeah,

 

place in the skull. It looks like a skull. Just like they said, there was a road to Damascus, right? And right outside, right next to that, you go through a little garden, there's a garden and there's a tomb there. It's carved out of rock, right? No one's ever been, only one person's been there. The Bible says, with Jesus, he's never been occupied since. You go in there, it's right by Bar-Gotha.

 

In a garden too. There's some more evidence. We went underneath through some 200 feet to the river, the aqueduct system that the Romans made back then. That's still there. All the stuff the Bible talks about is there. We went to Capernaum, right? ⁓ I'll give you a really good one. We went to the Valley of Elah.

 

Christian Elliot

OK, yeah.

 

Mark Grenon

That's where God, David and Goliath were. We went to the Valley of Elah, right? We're standing there and there's a river that goes right by it. It's called Nakindran. I'm blank for a minute. Anyway, the river that David picked four, five smooth stones out of. We went down to the river. Guess what? Every stone in that river were round and smooth. I think one of them.

 

Christian Elliot

Yeah, I've been there. It's like, huh, okay.

 

Mark Grenon

They're like, whoa, okay, you got the battle there. You got a place where David was. You got Capernaum, where Jesus walked. Nothing's been built up there. Jesus walked. There's a natural amphitheater type hillside where you could sit on a seashore and speak, not with my voice, right? All those things are there. The place where the maniac of Gadara, you come out of the tombs, got da-da.

 

cemeteries there, the Jordan rivers there, where they crossed over from the Jordan when they came out of the wilderness. That stone thing they set up is still there. Jericho that fell down is still there, fallen. I mean, went to the Shechem where Moses went

 

made his friend, no Moses, where Abraham went to make his first sacrifice. And then Joshua went where you have the two mountains, Gershwin and Ebal. The altars are still on top of those mountains. And guess what? Joseph's bones are downtown. We drank out of Jacob's well. Jacob's well, there was a big tour group there. They built churches.

 

over all these places, which is good because it preserved them, right? So we get there and no one is there. They're eating lunch in the tour group. We go down to the basement with our Jacobs wellers and there's an old guy there selling trinkets. Again, he's looking at our wives because they're beautiful. And I go, hey, can I drink out of the well? Let's do whatever you want. It's about 300 feet down. We took it.

 

it's delicious cold water. Well, it's exactly his bones are there. In Jerusalem, we drink out of David's well. David's tomb is right there. Everything is there, bro. The lions. Now, Jerusalem has been built up many times to be destroyed and rebuilt. So you're not walking on the original, but you can go down to the original places, right? But David's well,

 

Christian Elliot

Jacob's wh-

 

Mark Grenon

is still David's Well, because it's 100 feet down below the original Jerusalem right now. We went so many places. You go to the place that's called ⁓ Capernaum. I mean, Caesarea, where Paul was held. Caesarea, the amphitheater where Herod dropped dead and turned into worms. The amphitheater is there. All the things that

 

It says about Paul there, where else do we go? Caesarea Philippi, where the gates of hell is an opening there. And they say that's where the gates of hell. Everything that hasn't been built up like, you know, metropolis that's still countryside, it's exactly in the same form it was when Jesus walked this earth proving the Bible. Now, another place I went to was Qumran. Did you go to Qumran?

 

Christian Elliot

I did. went there too. Yeah.

 

Mark Grenon

Yeah, that was found in 1948 some shepherd's boys throwing rocks into a cave. had thing they climbed up and they find these clay pots and just that cave but later on found many more with animal skins in it that didn't get bad or destroyed or rot because of the climate there and they found 5,000 manuscripts in those manuscripts

 

2500 years ago from the Old Testament say the exact things that are in the Old Testament today. It's God not only, God we have His Word, but He preserved His Word.

 

Christian Elliot

Yeah, they're the complete, uh, scroll of the book of Isaiah, which is a long book. The whole thing was there too. It's just remarkable. The amount of detail and preservation of some of these that go ahead.

 

Mark Grenon

⁓ no, just the fact that after saying all that, and there's After saying all

 

Christian Elliot

No, there's so much.

 

Yeah. Yeah. I just recently got back to recent Turkey, just hearing or just walking in the footsteps of Paul and so much of the archaeology, the last hundred years has unearthed so many references to things that are the only record we had was in the Bible. now we know exactly where that was. Now we have the record of Herod and Pilate and other people who we just didn't have much.

 

Mark Grenon

The seven churches of the book of Revelation. Seven churches. there? All there. Corinth, Athens, Mars Hill. All that stuff's there. And why is it being suppressed except for people that are seeking for it? Why isn't they teaching this in schools? Because they don't want people to know that the Bible is not only

 

Christian Elliot

All in Turkey. Yeah.

 

Yeah, now it's remarkable.

 

Mark Grenon

saying things about God, but it's been preserved by God and it's the history of the universe from the beginning to the end. Why? Because the more people that hear that, the more people are going to say, wait a minute, I think this is true. I want that. And they're going to get in the word of God. And it's still the number one bestseller on earth. You know what number two is?

 

You know, in the Pilgrim's Progress, guy named John, yeah, John Bunyan wrote it, right? And how he wrote it was amazing. He was drunk one day walking down in London, drunk, not a believer, nothing. And some guy had thrown a little Bible track and said, have some sin to pick this up, Lord. He picked it up, it, God say became a believable. And again,

 

Christian Elliot

I didn't know that.

 

Mark Grenon

whatever term you want to use regenerated, sceptic, the Lord, whatever you want to and he started preaching, right? He starts preaching and they told me and he said, you stop preaching, we're going to put you in a dungeon. He spent 12 years in a dungeon and writing that book in London. It's in second most bestseller on earth. But he should read that book.

 

Christian Elliot

Wow. I didn't know that.

 

Right. Yeah. All right. Well, fast forward a little bit in your journey. Like so New Testament wise or some of the stuff that we see, at least in the New Testament, you had a couple of stories I heard of seeing, experiencing people who were possessed. Like there's a, there's a lot of exorcisms in the New Testament where demons have possessed people and get them to do amazing things or crazy things. But tell us about your experience of seeing some demon possessed people in the mission field.

 

Mark Grenon

In Nigeria, was on the weekends, we go to the open market, buy stuff, but the same token, we not only buy stuff, we pass out word of God, inviting people to church, right? now this is Nigeria, 500 miles north of the equator. In the summer, it gets up to 130 degrees. It is so hot, on the sun, so hot in Nigeria.

 

So I'm walking through and they all have these, you know, lean twos. You could get some shade while you're buying your thing. I got to this back part of the market and it got cold. What's going on here? And I'm standing in front of this, this,

 

What would you call it in English? It's really weird when you learn that like a little shop. And in the beginning of it, it's a bunch of bones. It's a bunch of bones. ⁓ weird. Why do you say bones? Well, they got see juju is what voodoo came from in Nigeria. It's called juju. So they practice juju. I even talked to a king. There was a cannibal.

 

Christian Elliot

Okay.

 

Mark Grenon

in my town gave him a Bible and he was educated at Oxford. He went to Oxford England to get educated, drives a Mercedes and he's a cannibal. Okay, still leads people. When he became king, he ate his father's brain, he ate his father's heart to get the heart and the heart and the intelligence of how to lead his people. I'm in right by the palace, by the way. I look at him and I see this

 

person in the back as it was kind of dark. I walk in and I go, ⁓ hey, I'd like to give this ⁓ growling at me. It was a little old lady growling at me. I mean, like a dog, not like a woman trying to make the noise, growling like a dog. And in Nigeria, they see a lot of the guys and guys I know that are completely honest have seen people switch the witch doctors of the juju.

 

switch from a person to a leopard or a panther. They said I saw it right before my eyes. It's really wild. But anyways, this lady looked like a hundred year old lady growling at me, So I leave. go, okay, God bless you. Jesus loves you. The blood of Jesus Christ. She's screaming. So I leave the track by the bones and I go away. Next week I read in the newspaper.

 

where I was is where they sold all the meat of humans and they were human bones, they're cannibals in that part of the market. I had no idea. Another time I was in Boston and in Boston, you know, not in Nigeria. I'm going around talking to people and I'm giving people tracks and I go, hey, God bless you. He starts to mouth his

 

his face changed. hate you. This is wild. The sounds they make sound like you're at a pentacle church. People speak it in tongues. It's the same guttural. ⁓ Whoa, whoa, this is wild. And he wouldn't tell you, wouldn't talk to me. Nothing. That guy was possessed. ⁓ Then

 

I was there on the good side of it. I was there at Christmas time in Boston, at a place called Haymarket Square at Faneuil Hall. We were singing about the youth, they're singing Christmas carols inviting people to church. It's really like 30 miles away from Boston, so people could be coming into Boston, easily be near us, inviting people. And just, it was going through my mind.

 

I was by myself going through my mind. People were spread out. We're passing out by people of church. God bless you. Right? I'm thinking in my head, Lord, I don't know if we should build a building. We only pay a hundred bucks a month and then we can have it for the rest of our life as a church. We're feeding 600 people in there. Why do I want to go in debt? I'd rather put all our money into mission work and getting the word of God around the world.

 

I'm thinking about that, right? We stay in the Italian social club. Right about then, these two guys, they look like they were six, seven, perfect haircuts, not robots, but just clean cut Marines or something, right? Come up to me. They go, ⁓ hey sir, yeah, Merry Christmas. God bless you. Yeah, take this thing. We're already redeemed. We are, no, they said.

 

We are redeemed. Like that's where I've never had anybody answer me like that. That's kind of cool. And they look at me and say, stay in the Italian social club. And I go, cause I was just thinking about it, right? So I'm thinking, well, didn't think about what I was just thinking about, but I was just thinking about it. So I turned and I swear it was like maybe 10 seconds at the most. I turned back and this was a big open.

 

area. I it would take you at least 30 seconds to walk to any of the edges of it to get on the street or whatever. It's a big, what do they call those place? Open air. I used to know a lot of vocabulary in English. Yeah, no, but it was all open. Well, there's nothing. ⁓ So I turned back around quick. Like what?

 

Christian Elliot

Okay. Okay.

 

Mark Grenon

What do they mean by that? And they're gone. I'm thinking, wow, that's weird. Was that those angels that said to me, stay in the Italian Social Club, and they disappeared. Is that what that was? Look. So guess what? We stayed in Italian Social Club, and we're there to this day. That church is still there. So I mean, I've had things happen to me. The Bible says in the book of Hebrews, beware, pay attention.

 

because you will entertain to angels unaware like Abraham did. That was the Lord and that was angels like others through the word of God have done. So I believe in that spiritual realm. I talked to people that before they got saved were involved in what they call astral projection. They would come, they go to the seance, take these drugs and I believe drugs. Let me say this before I tell you this story.

 

I believe drugs open doors because in the book of Revelation, the word for sorcery, sorcery, all the sorcery is going to deceive the world is the word pharmakia. They get the word pharmacy from. So they open up the pharmaceuticals, open up doors. So what was I talking about? The, ⁓ this one blank.

 

Christian Elliot

You're talking about astral projection, I think.

 

Mark Grenon

yeah, thank you. I get sidetracked on one step. Astral projection. They said, Mark, when we get out of the body, we'd look at it. We could see our body, but you could see all kinds of things in the spiritual world. You could see ugly, evil-looking spirits. You could see gargoyles. You could see all kinds of stuff. But you could also see among the people, could see benevolent.

 

like angels that wouldn't be evil. So the spiritual realm was real. How about how many times I know a pastor friend of mine, I'll tell you what happened to me last year. He had an death experience. He left his body, right? He's looking at seeing them walking on him in emergency and he died. They said he died for like six minutes. He went to see the Lord and the Lord said, basically, you hear this a lot not done yet.

 

go back because he wasn't dead. He was dead, but he wasn't. The Lord had something to do. He came back and he said, Mark, I did not want to come back. I did not want come back. What happened to me last year when they stopped my heart during my operation was I went through this veil. It was like red, yellow and green, but it was like an electrical veil. It's just like...

 

When I was on the other side, I didn't really see much because I was just on the other side of it. And, but it was so peaceful, no pain. I was just like, oh, you want to stay here? And I got zapped back in. What I found out was it happened twice. They stopped my heart twice during my heart operation, twice, but like, seconds. It wasn't a long time. And so I personally experienced that myself.

 

And I even told the surgical team, listen, if I don't wake up, don't worry about me. I'm going to be with the Lord Jesus Christ and I'm happy. So in fact, I told him I was a little groggy. In fact, maybe break it so I don't wake up. Okay. Cause I don't really care. There's nothing in this world. Everybody I love is going to be there with me one day. So I was preaching to them as they were putting me out and, and that's what happened to me.

 

Personally not making it so I didn't go to heaven. I didn't talk to Jesus nothing like that But I didn't go through a veil and I did feel a peaceful. It's like I came right back There's a spiritual

 

Christian Elliot

What a story.

 

Part of why I wanted to do this episode was just to be able to talk to somebody who's got a long run of life, of ministry, of travel, of seeing experiences, of finding evidence that just... I challenge people if they have doubts about the Bible, I'm like, see if you can prove it wrong. That stress test. Yeah. What's that?

 

Mark Grenon

This is cool. In 1970, before the Iron Curtain fell, we were involved in smuggling Bibles into Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia and West Germany, but mainly those areas with a van that had fake walls put Bibles in it. So we had just come back from Yugoslavia, not with Bibles, but with equipment for the printing press because they wanted to start printing them in Yugoslavia.

 

We're going into Czechoslovakia, which is now called Czech Republic. Right across in Bratislava, right? No GPS is back then was 80 It was not 90 was 86 85 So we're going to find this this family of a guy that preaches on Transworld radio He escaped and he preaches in the Czech language to Czech Republic

 

We're going to go see his parents and give him some money as well as say hi and his brother and a couple people. so we crossed the Aminai, search you under the car, the Iron Curtain, we're still in, where are going? We're going to this place called Piastani where they have hot springs and it's a health place. So they let people go in there as tourists and that's where his parents live, in Piastani. So I thought I knew what I was doing.

 

Hour later, I'm lost, man. I am found out later. I'm like an hour and a half from in the wrong direction, right? So we stopped the car. Me and my wife, it's summertime. The windows are down. We're praying, we're lost. We can't speak this language. We don't know what to do. I don't know what we should do. I don't even know if we'll find our way back. Help us, Lord. Help us. We hear faintly.

 

singing. So I pull up and tell my wife to get loud enough. We got maybe an eighth of a mile up and it was as loud as we could hear it. We the car, rolled up the windows, walked down this sidewalk and in Europe, in these communist countries, they make a lot of houses that look to say, we'd say like townhouses, but they were for communist control. Anyways, we walked down a little bit.

 

We can hear singing a little louder. I stopped at the door that I thought it was at. I knock on the door. Music stops. because you're not really supposed to have at that time a church. We went to underground churches in East Germany near Berlin. That was an incredible spirit of God. Listen, that's another story. Anyways, we knocked on the door. No one comes. Knock again.

 

Christian Elliot

yeah.

 

Mark Grenon

little harder. The lady opens the door. She's speaking her language. don't know anything. Christian. Jesus. Jesus. You know, I knew a little German mind, mind father, but I'm in Czech Republic. How would, how would they know a German is right? Jesus, Jesus appointing them slams the door. Well, but when she did open, I noticed some pews.

 

in there like it was a church service. So maybe 30 seconds later this guy comes to do it. And he spoke a little English, a little German, really broken. I go, you know, in German a little bit, mein Bruder, mein Pada, mein Peter, Jesus, Jesus. And he goes, come in, come in, shut the door. ⁓ I had a Bible in my hand. I figured I'd have a Bible, okay. And so he could come in and he goes, I'm be quiet because

 

We were singing too loud even. He's telling me he's broken English. I go, well, I'm looking for, I gave the guy's name. He goes, that's my brother. I'm only here today because they are preacher. They asked me to fill in for the pastor, but it's an hour and a half away. And I came on a bus, spent the night. That's my brother. So we have a car. We'll take you back. And he goes, wonderful. So he finished the service.

 

We didn't understand anything. We drove back and on the way he tells me, he goes, they told me at the border, you have to stay at this hotel and you have to have your passport checked and da da da da da da, right? He tells me I'm the manager of the hotel. I'll stamp your passport and you can stay with my parents the whole time. Now tell me that ain't God. How could that happen? Right?

 

Christian Elliot

Wow.

 

Now, this is like one of the vanilla stories for missionaries. You guys have you all have stuff like that. Yeah, I just doing this thing and all these weird turns. It ends up being a divine appointment. then it's just it seems like for the course of what so much of what you do.

 

Mark Grenon

to tell you and wrap it up, maybe. This book is real. This book is history of the world. More specific than any other history book on earth. It's been preserved by God. And anybody listening to this would do well to get yourself a Bible and start. I mean, there's a lot of Bibles. I'll tell you this. I don't know what Bible you use. And it's irrelevant to me right now.

 

Christian Elliot

Yeah, yes.

Yeah.

 

Mark Grenon

But I use the King James Bible. Why? Because you're an old guy. You like these and those. Well, there's something pretty important about these and those because it's the first second, second person singular and the third second person plural. That that's why you have these and those. You can't say that in English. You as you. But besides that, the manuscripts that people had died had the Texas receptors in their hands.

 

They died for that. And guess what? In the last days, the last book, English book, last big revival around the world was with English language. And then where do you find perfect time? Greenwich, England, Zulu time. Where do you find perfect latitude? Zero meridian, zero latitude, zero longitude, right in England. It's times the reason that God says, I want that book that's going to bring

 

And it went for like 200 years revival around the world with that text. Okay. That text, the Texas receptors. That's why I use it. Cause I studied Greek study Hebrew. That's why I use it. Now am I telling you every other book is bad? No, I can show you how to get saving a book of Mormon. There's enough gospel in there. Right. But this is why, this is why I use the King James Bible. They have a new King James. They have an NASB.

 

They have many that are really 95 % that book, but that's why I use that book.

 

Christian Elliot

All right. Well, thank you for that little history lesson. So I mean, I will maybe wrap up with this question or maybe play devil's advocate just for fun. But if if you were to guess how much of our current reality is sanitized or curated and if you could just snap your fingers and make humanity have one major set of blinders fall off, what would you want people to see or know?

 

Mark Grenon

That what I just said, that if you seek me, you shall find me when you search for me with your whole heart. And he's talking about seeking Him in the Word of God and seeking Him from your heart. You first have to seek Him with your heart before you'll ever find the Word of God, because He is the Word of God. He is the Word of God. And so you have to have the Word of God. The blindness, I would say, was for you to seek Him.

 

You'll find him. you start asking the Lord, ⁓ Lord, I want you in my life. I'm seeking you with all my heart. Honestly, not like a trick. Honestly, I need you and I want peace in my life. He's going to direct you to that book. It's like he did me. And you're going to know. Then you're going to have to make a decision because the decision is yours. It's a gift that you have to receive to as many as received him, to them gave me power to become.

 

the sons of God and the power of God is in that message of how Jesus died according to the scriptures, was buried according to the scriptures and rose. And the day that he rose from the dead, excuse me, the day that he died on the cross, the temple veil rent and the Jews recorded it happen in the Talmud. The Jews, it was 30 AD, they said,

 

The temple ripped right down from top to bottom. Why from top to bottom? Because God ripped it from heaven down to earth and gave us access that we can come boldly unto His stroke through the blood of Jesus Christ. That's what I'd want them to be asking and opening would be their hearts and minds to God, to that book.

 

Christian Elliot

Yeah.

 

Yeah. No, it's a room. If accepting that there's that the Bible's true also implies that you accept other things that like evil is real and that there's a creator who has the right to say what good and evil is. And often in our culture, we don't like to talk about or give lip service to the reality that evil exists. And if you can't accept that, then a lot of just

 

what we see just won't make sense, but your story or your especially even our last episode where we talked about what has been done to you or it has been done to people who try to get the truth out. It's hard to argue that. So ⁓ any final thoughts on just wrapping up about one. What's that?

 

Mark Grenon

One final thought, it

 

really helped me too. In my books, I give the definition of science being observation and repeatability. Now, if you observe something can repeat it over and over again, it goes from a hypothesis to a theory to a law and the laws of science, God created gravity. You can look at the atom, right?

 

You've got protons, electrons, neutrons. They should fly apart, but they don't. Why? They're reverse polarity. Why? Because it says in Colossians, by him he holds all things together. And the things that are not that we see are made things from what we don't see, from atoms. If God took his presence off the universe, everything would fly apart because everything is made

 

of atoms. holds everything together and that's science. Science proves the existence of God, not disprove it.

 

Christian Elliot

Yeah.

 

Right. Yeah. People that think science and faith are mutually exclusive just haven't thought as hard. It's that science is it's just one other ology to study. Yeah. To study the one that made it. Right. OK. Well, Mark, thank you for leaving a record of your life experience. Thank you for leaving a record of walking a faith journey and the breadcrumbs you found. And all of us have limited perspective on everything. But

 

You found so many things throughout your travels and your life and your experiences. thank you for standing up for truth, for talking about it unafraid and even the weird things about possession and giants and all the other crazy things that the Bible talks about. There's history there and there's something to learn from that. so thank you for standing up for what you believe and tell any last thoughts on where people can go to find you, support your missions, your books coming out, anything else you want people to know.

 

Mark Grenon

I said you have all the links to my books. I really encourage you to give my books because they're going to learn a lot about practicing self-care as opposed to health care. We practice self-care and the Bible talks about our temple being our bodies and then we should keep them clean and not defile them because when we defile them it's going to kill you. So definitely clean up, learn how to detox the body, learn the foods to eat, learn how to

 

Christian Elliot

I do.

 

Mark Grenon 

Get the toxins out of your body and the toxic relationships, stress, start with God first. Really need to get that toxic relationship out of your life. If it's with God, believe me, because he'll give you a piece. Like he said, my peace, I give unto you, not as the world give it unto you. It's not like the world's peace. It's peace that passes in the hospital room.

 

Christian Elliot

Yeah.

 

Mark Grenon

having your chest opened up in the jail, being thrown in jail for nothing. That piece is what you want. That will make you, that will make you happy. And that's the piece that he talked about.

 

Christian Elliot

All right. Well, thank you so much for the time today. We'll get those links in the show notes and you guys make it a great day. Thank you. God bless you. You too.