E63: Lori Simpson

The Sinister Side of the Hospital System: Awareness, Advocacy and How to Not Be a Victim

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Christian Elliot

Hello everyone, welcome to episode number 63. I have another great, I'd even say important interview for you today. And I say important because there's a good chance at some point in your life you or a loved one is going to have to interact with a hospital system in an emergency setting or deal with being admitted to the hospital for any number of reasons. 

 

And what you learn in this conversation may have everything to do with how well that scenario plays out and the kind of care you receive or don't receive. So think of this episode as an eyes wide open call to be aware of what can go wrong in a hospital setting and what you can do to advocate for yourself or your loved one. My guest is Lori Simpson. She has had a long career in healthcare that spanned different facets of modern medicine, from nursing to hospice to hospital administration, and now to working as a doula. 

 

So during what could be called the height of the COVID hysteria, Lori found herself in a situation where her husband was, for lack of a better term, imprisoned in the hospital. Not only was she banned from visiting him, it took her three months to get him out. And this story recounts a breathtaking amount of lies, errors, gaslighting, and coercion that Lori and her husband experienced. One shocking aspect of the story is that Lori was very aware that these kinds of scenarios were not uncommon during COVID, and she had prepared in advance to do everything possible to avoid the exact scenario in which she found herself. 

 

And like I said, she worked in hospital administration. She knew the protocols and procedures that were supposed to be followed. She understood the hospital's legal vulnerabilities, the power structures, and the decision-making processes. And yet, all of that insider knowledge and preparation was brushed aside and she was bullied. So both through her public interviews that occurred while she was trying to get her husband out of the hospital, and in hearing her tell the story to me more than once, it still shocks me that this kind of thing happens. 

 

But her story is one of countless similar experiences that occurred all over the country. Although different, it also reminded me of Mark Grennan's story from episode number 51, where as Mark ended up in jail and almost died for a victimless crime, by the way, Lori's husband was in a prison of his own. And in both cases, all of their normal rights were suspended because the system flaunted the word emergency. And when you hear stories like what Lori or Mark have lived through, you just keep thinking, this cannot be real. But it was. And these kinds of stories stand as a warning to the rest of us to do everything we can to not let things like this happen in the future. So back to Lori and her husband's story. After the interview, Lori let me know that just talking about what happened triggered a flood of memories, and it prompted her to go back and look at the medical records again. 

 

So here are a few important details that she told me about after the interview that I want to get on the record here in case anyone listening to this is working on cases like this. Now you'll have some more details to go on. So based on the medical records Lori has access to, her husband was given a shocking cocktail of meds that included propofol, fentanyl, morphine, atavan, prozac, diuretics, and presidex.

 

 I don't know who comes up with these names, but anyway, Presidex is a sedative that's used for surgery, and it's not supposed to be used for more than 24 hours. But they kept him on it for three straight days via an IV infusion, which is contraindicated as stated on the package insert. 

 

What's worse is that, according to Lori, never once were her or her husband offered consent regarding any medication, nor would the hospital give either of them the names of the drugs being administered. The best they could do was look them up later in the records. Even worse, when Lori's husband developed thrush, they gave him nystatin swish and swallow, and he had an anaphylactic or severe allergic reaction to that. Lori only knew about it because her husband called her and she could hear the dress in real time over the phone. 

 

Despite the allergic reaction, the hospital continued to offer him nystatin for five more days. Like I said, this is just a shocking level of mismanagement. If you know anything about those drugs, you have more to say about how egregious that was. But Lori wrote me after the interview. She also said, I guess I've just tried to suppress and stop thinking about it because it revives the anger and stands in the way of the forgiveness that I am still working on. 

 

That is why they call it the hospital holocaust, because you can never really move on. Ouch, that is a significant level of emotional processing. So what struck me in preparing for this episode is how the medical system, similar to what happened to the military during COVID, has kind of weeded out the people who were not willing to go along with medical abuse, or in this case, dare I say, attempted medical murder. Independent thinkers, the people who have a spine, who stood on principle, who won't cut corners, those who refused to get injected with an experimental liability-free product, or for context, here in the US, two of your three options were to take a product created by an unrepentant serial felon, that's Pfizer or Johnson ⁇ Johnson, or your other option was to get injected from a company that had never brought a product to market, that's Moderna. 

 

The people who stood up to that, who said, uh, no, this doesn't feel right, those are the people the system expunged. How the system gets such people back, I don't know. Frankly, I don't know if the system wants such people back. So are there good practitioners left in the medical system? Yes, I am sure there are, and there's thousands of them, or tens of thousands, hopefully, whatever that number is. But what I think the point of Lori's story drives home is that the era of blind trust in this system is, or at least should be, over. 

 

At this point, I think a better default setting when engaging the medical system is distrust but verified. The system has shown what it is willing to do, and I think that precedent makes it prudent to engage with inherent skepticism. And just for context, this is not a new problem. COVID just amplified it. 

 

If you heard episode two, you know that back in the year 2000, via the Journal of the American Medical Association, the medical system admitted that it is the third leading cause of death in the country. And it's and the entire healthcare world basically just shrugged and said, oh well. Anyway, moving on, and there was no hard look in the mirror. 

 

There was no reform. Nothing changed. It's as if the entire profession just kind of assumed that medical errors are what other doctors do. Or worse, they just carried on as if to say, well, what can we say? 

 

You have to break some eggs to make an omelet. Like, friends, this system doesn't have the best track record, and today's story is one of countless examples of that. And the faster we can accept the world the way it is and the systems the way they are rather than the way we want them to be, the faster we can arrive at solid ground and be able to make wiser decisions for our family.

 

 So, in many ways, especially with a great practitioner purge that happened during COVID, I think the medical system is suffering from the same problems that all governments have. The bigger and more centralized a system becomes, the less regard it has for the individual, and the less empathy it has for any carnage it creates. That's just how big systems tend to devolve, and that is a shame, especially when it comes to something as precious as our health. So back to my distrust but verify suggestion. Emotionally, that can be a hard pill to swallow to approach the system with a posture of distrust, especially when you're in urgent need of help. Sometimes the system can offer the best help. 

 

So what would a practical look, or what would it practically look like to distrust it and still seek help? Well, that question is one Lori and I spent a good deal of time on in this episode. As you know, I'm not just here to point out problems and throw stones. I'm here to help you find better questions and navigate this crazy world the best we can. 

 

So, given Lori's work as a doula, one of her duties is to follow her clients to the hospital should they want or need to go that route for giving birth. And Lori is also responsible to advocate for her clients once they are there. As you might imagine, especially if you heard my last episode about the childbirth industry, the hospital system doesn't always appreciate having a third wheel or an outside voice pointing out a patient's preferences or asking questions about why the hospital wants to manage a woman's labor and delivery that way. 

 

So, to not get kicked out of the hospital, Lori also became a certified advocate and medical witness. Brilliant. Her diverse background made for such a rich conversation full of practical tools. Not only do we cover some pitfalls to watch out for, such as electronic waivers, electronic records, and HIPAA forms, but we also talked about how to advocate in real time, and that, as you might imagine, is all about knowing your rights and having emotional regulation and conversation skills. 

 

Those were things Lori and I both admitted we could get better at. I told Lori a brief story of how I unexpectedly had to advocate for my dad when he was in the hospital, and I asked her what I could have done better. Her response was great, and so I look forward to all of you hearing what I could have done better. One last thing I want to say here as I set the table is that nothing in this episode is meant to be fear-inducing, but it is meant to expose what could go wrong in hospital.

 

 If we're under the illusion that nothing like this could happen, we'll be totally unprepared if something like this does happen. So, as with all my episodes, nothing in this show is meant to be personal advice. This is two people sharing our stories and perspectives. And as you'll hear, we can't guarantee any positive outcomes. We did our best to teach you the things that may increase your odds of better outcomes. Um, at the end of the day, I hope one of the takeaways you have from this episode, beyond the situational awareness and the practical tools, is that this is also the story about the love of a spouse, a spouse who wouldn't give up on her beloved. May we all be so blessed to have someone in our lives who would fight for us as hard as Lori fought for her husband. 

 

Lori, thank you for sharing this painful story again. You are a gift to us all, and it was an honor to have you on the show. Okay, without further ado, here is my conversation with Lori Simpson. Hello, everyone. Welcome to today's show. So my guest is the lovely Lori Simpson, and I was actually introduced to her in an effort to help advocate for my dad in the hospital setting. And as it turns out, uh my parents had helped her when her husband was in the hospital. 

 

And so it's kind of I finally got to meet her in person and just share some stories and um lessons learned. And I thought it would fit so well on the show because she has such a shocking story related to what happened to her husband in the hospital during the height of the COVID hysteria. So we'll get to that in a minute. But Lori, welcome. Thank you for coming on the show for having the courage to tell your story and to help as many people as possible.

 

 You're welcome. So before we get to your professional background, which is relevant, you're first a mom and a wife and a and a woman. And so one of the relevant parts of your story is that you have a vaccine-injured son. And so give us a little window into that way that you see and have worked with the medical system, because I think that and some of the other things we'll mention will really set up some context for what we're going to talk about today.

Lori Simpson

Once upon a time, I was very much a mainstream medically trained person. Um, then after my son was injured by his third DPT, after our government and everybody involved in the industry knew that the DPT was causing so much damage to children and encephalopathy, um, that opened my eyes. 

 

And I then set off on a 30-year journey to get him back. Uh, he had experienced encephalopathy within hours of his third DTAP, but he had been primed by having the DPT first because he was born in 1991. So we are still on that journey. He is still living with us, but he is high functioning, get depressed because he knows what he doesn't have, and he very much wants a normal life. So I'm never gonna stop that battle.

Christian Elliot

Yeah, good for you. Well, what in what ways did that shift how you saw the medical system?

Lori Simpson

Well, it definitely opened my eyes because the consent forms and things that I had signed had absolutely no indication there that encephalopathy was uh a risk factor. Um, and everything that we were were giving the kids at one time was just too much for them at a time when their immune systems weren't developed enough to even respond properly to what we were attempting to do for them. 

 

So I set off on, you know, looking at things biomedically to try and get him back. And in my journey, I have learned so many alternative ways of looking at health. And so I am not a Rockefeller medicine person anymore. I run fast away from it, and we typically do not use um standard medications, things are compounded, we use natural approaches because that's where we have seen the biggest changes. Medicine had nothing, you know, nothing to offer him.

Christian Elliot

Yeah.

Lori Simpson

And that was before the internet. So I had to go to college medical libraries and hospital medical libraries to begin his healing process to get him back.

Christian Elliot

Yeah. Well, that's that's another important data point. So then the next thing I wanted the listener to hear is just you have a background. You're in in this field. So you originally worked as a nurse and then you worked some in hospice care and eventually got into hospital administration. So before we get to what you do today, talk us through that career arc because I think it adds a lot of context for the rest of what we're going to talk about.

Lori Simpson

Yes. Um, I went to nursing school back in the day when we were trained that the patient was the center of everything and the care and humanization of them was something that was truly important. Um I was kind of pulled out of class and sent to a hospice internship program with a new hospice that was opening up in Pennsylvania because they thought that I was, now this is going to sound odd, good at death. It just turns out that I um I'm very empathetic and I feel deeply. And so when I was working with dying patients, um I didn't fall apart. I felt that I needed to be there for them and for their families. And so after graduating, I moved into hospice for a few years. Um I ended up in administration because at the time um I could make more in administration than I could as an RN. 

 

So I had gone to a BSN program. My administrative experience is primarily in very, very large retirement communities where there was a spectrum of care from skilled nursing to independent living with assisted living in between, rehab, acute rehab, that sort of thing, which is where I was able to acquire the skills in PT and OT to then eventually help rehab my husband back to his life after he was injured.

Christian Elliot

Yeah. Okay. Well, so that background. So I guess the picture I'm painting for you all is there's a breadth of experience, there's an awareness of the system and some of its shortcomings. 

 

And then there's that typical along came COVID, which I we probably all have our stories of like, oh, that era. And here's my battle scars of things I've lived through. You've got one of the worst stories I have ever heard. And every time I hear it, I'm still shocked by what happened. So tell us the story of what led to your husband being admitted to the hospital during that time. And then we'll get into kind of the story of events that unfolded from there.

Lori Simpson

Well, my husband John had gotten back from India in November of 21. Uh, he brought back a lot of ivermectin because he was able to purchase it at the airport and over-the-counter at pharmacies in India. And we wanted to have that on hand. I was thoroughly researched in methods that actually worked for this disease and wanted to protect my family and others. 

 

And so I would get calls at work from people at church just asking what we should do for my son, and he's experiencing this. And, you know, I've talked to them for a couple hours. And um I had developed antibodies early on working in the situation where I did um and probably got a lot of shedding because we also did um vaccine clinics and vaccinated hundreds of people, but that's a whole nother story. Um so John ended up getting COVID uh shortly after his trip from India.

 

 He was sick for about four days. But John's microbiome is not the same as mine. He has some dietary improvements that he should make so that he would be less vulnerable. So he ended up getting a stomach bug right after that, right after Christmas, before New Year's, with a lot of uh GI symptoms. And I was doing something called uh thoracic pump with the doctor on the line. Um and he did not have his head turned and he vomited and he aspirated. I heard him aspirate. I absolutely know what it sounds like.

Christian Elliot

Except for somebody who doesn't know what aspirated means, define that for them.

Lori Simpson

When he vomited, he took some of that uh abominous into his lungs. It went down the wrong pipe, basically, and went into his lungs. And classically, uh, within three to four days, he was running a fever, he was showing signs of aspiration pneumonia. It was clear aspiration pneumonia, he was over COVID, not a problem. We had no issue with that. 

 

So um he continued to worsen, even though I was doing IVs and treating him at home. I was having trouble getting antibiotics to give him IV at home, even though our doctor had prescribed it. We only were able to get one dose of rosefin, and then his oxygen concentrations fell into the upper 70s. 

 

And my belief was that if I didn't really know the Virginia hospital system very well at the time, we hadn't used it. Um, I'm from Pennsylvania, and so I looked at the hospitals and I picked one that had an outpatient pharmacy, because in my mind, they would identify the organism through a sputum culture, and we would have a matched antibiotic, and I would administer at home and get them out of there in three to four days.

Christian Elliot

That is not what happened. Yeah, right. And well, and so let me pause right here because what you also did, you were not unaware of a lot of the shady things going on in the hospital system when the COVID hysteria was at its peak. So you were aware that there are traps, maybe you could think, upset there. 

 

And so you had done, you had prepared in advance to avoid any of that. So talk about what you had done to kind of prepare yourself for a scenario like what you eventually lived through.

Lori Simpson

The need for hospitalized did kind of surprise me because we had been so well informed. So before I even called the ambulance, while he was on oxygen, we had our own concentrator and I already was keeping him well hydrated and was able to run the IVs. But um, we did an advanced directive before he left with um informed consent and um informed refusal on there, what we were going to refuse. 

 

And we added that then to a medical power attorney where he gave me his medical power attorney because I knew that somebody needed to guard him, basically. And my husband is not medical, you know, he works um, he works in construction areas, so um he makes up names for equipment and things like that, drives me crazy. But um, so I was his medical power attorney, much to the hospital's dismay. And I witnessed it, my son witnessed it. 

 

I knew we needed official witnesses, and I had him sign that, and then I called the ambulance. And they questioned why he wasn't going to the nearest hospital, and he said, and he had a sense that maybe that was wrong. And I believe it was God telling him he was going to the wrong place. Um, but he ended up going to the hospital where he was basically held prisoner for three months through all kinds of means. We were uh not able to get him out.

 

 They would refuse transfer, they would refuse any outside intervention. They told me I could not consult with outside consultants. I could not bring in a pulmonary specialist, even though they had privileges at that hospital. They really isolated him and restricted any interference with their standard protocols. 

 

And when he went in, because he was only three to four weeks post-COVID, a PCR test would probably show that he had COVID, even though the test itself is flawed. But I did find out later from the lab directly that his um test was amplified 37 times and it was still inconclusive. But on the chart it says assumed COVID positive.

Christian Elliot

Which is enough to let's not read yeah. So, okay, well, so walk us through the step by step because there are so many details in here. I want people to hear what happens and that in the different trapdoors or thresholds that somebody walks through so they can one just be aware of this, and two, everything they can do to prevent something like this. So walk us through the moment he's either the ambulance or admitted to the hospital. And take over. What happened from there?

Lori Simpson

Well, even though I had had been in the ER with him for nine hours prior to his admission, at one point, when the doctor finally came in, he said, Why would you be refusing Remdisivir? Why would you be refusing a vent? Well, you know, if he codes, he's going to need to be ventilated. And I said, There will be no reason why he would code. He is in good health. He has an infection right now. We just need to get to the source. The doctor immediately rolled his eyes. Within about an hour, they came in with a gurney and said, We're taking him up to the ICU.

 

 And I'm thinking, why is he going straight to the ICU? That made no sense to me, but that's where the prophet was. Um, and I followed the gurney out because they just immediately started wheeling when I said, You need to wait a minute. I'm going to pray over my husband and you're going to stay in here and wait until I'm finished. And then I was not allowed to see him for the first 20 days.

Christian Elliot

So even though was it the prayer that was the offensive thing, or what under what pretext?

Lori Simpson

I think me stopping them from wheeling him rapidly up to the ICU. And he he really was an ICU material. Um, he was breathing fine with some supplementary oxygen. We just needed to get to the infection source. Okay.

Christian Elliot

Okay.

Lori Simpson

So yes, they were they did stop. It was almost like their mouths dropped open, like, how dare she? So, you know, so that was the beginning of my reputation at that hospital as you know, a troublemaker. But then I wasn't allowed to come in and see him for the first 20 days. He had his birthday on the second day, he was there. I had sent in not only my antibody levels, which I had had tested, but my T cell levels.

 

 Now, they're supposed to be medical people, so they would understand that if I had T cells against the COVID um strain, that I had lifelong immunity. I was not a threat to them. I was not going to get COVID. Um, they probably just threw all that away. I was still not allowed to come in at all for the first 20 days.

Christian Elliot

Talk to me about that first 20 days, then, because I can't imagine. You were like, okay, well, never mind, then I'll just move on. Like, what kind of walls did you run into, or what did you attempt to do to get back in there and be with your husband?

Lori Simpson

Well, on day 21, I was certainly there. Now, visiting hours were limited from five to seven. And I had to go.

Christian Elliot

Five to seven, like two hours or 14 hours?

Lori Simpson

Two hours out of every day, starting at five, ending at seven. And I had to work in Silver Spring, and this hospital was located in Virginia, and it took me an hour to get there. So I could maybe see him for 10 to 20 minutes a day during those visiting hours. And you could only have one visitor per day, not one visitor at the bedside, one visitor for an entire 24-hour period.

 

 Now I asked if I could be his uh his advocate and stay with him, and I was denied that. They kept telling me they were bumping it up the chain, but I was denied that. So in those first 20 days, um, they withdrew all nutrition and hydration. He got a tray the first day or two and he was begging for water, and they would give him a small water bottle, and then that was it. 

 

And then they just told him that they like to keep their COVID patients dry, and so therefore, he was not going to get any more water. He was not allowed out of bed, even though when he entered the hospital, he could walk. He could not use the bathroom, was forced to use a urinal, and eventually he was forced to have external catheters, and their application of those catheters with extra medical tape for nursing convenience did cause some permanent injury.

 

 But um, we are not that unique. Uh, the COVID-19 Humanity Betrayal Project came up with 25 commonalities that happened to people during the COVID era in hospitals for profit. And John fit all 25. It is amazing how common my experience is. And particularly if you had any medical knowledge or background at all, they had to get you out.

Christian Elliot

Yeah.

Lori Simpson

And so I was very limited in my ability to visit. I was on the phone with him as much as possible until they took his phone. And then he couldn't contact me anymore. And I would call the nurse's station to ask about things that I saw on my chart, the computerized chart, where limited information is. 

 

And eventually they stopped taking my calls. Uh, there were even some nights because most of the time emergencies happened in the middle of the night. It was just a coincidence. It was always the middle of the night. And they would see my Pennsylvania mobile number and I would hear them pick up the phone because they had land lines at the desk and put it back down, not take the call and not want to listen to it ring. Um, then I would call from my husband's phone. 

 

He had an extra phone from work which with a local number, and they'd pick up, and then when they found out it was me, they would hang up again, or they would tell me, Oh, the nurse practitioner will call you back, because they only had nurse practitioners on at night. So every time he coded, and he coded three times while he was in the hospital from over the listener what tell the listener what that means.

Christian Elliot

What when they code somebody.

Lori Simpson

Uh, he stopped freezing, or his heart rate, um, his heart rate would drop so low, he went as low as 30. He had bradycardia, where his heart rate was just so diminished because of all the sedatives they had him on. Um, they were just slowly slowing down his heart. He never had heart issues prior to this hospitalization. So that happened three times in the middle of the night.

 

 He was also made a do not resuscitate patient in the middle of the night. And, you know, I believe God woke me up every time something happened because I would wake up three in the morning, four in the morning, and I knew immediately I had to go to my chart and see what was going on. And I would see, oh, they just had to um shock him. Oh, they wrote a DNR. He's not a DNR.

 

 He had a vans erectus when he went in. And I even had the CEO of the hospital come up to the room after I had a discussion with one of the doctors about doing um a type of uh nutrition where they put it straight into the veins, uh, TPN, and they told me it wasn't appropriate. And they said, Well, hasn't had any nutrition for a month. I think it's appropriate, but um, no. But the CEO of the hospital came up to tell me that he was always a DNR. And they said, go back in your records. And then they told me that it was a clerical error. Well, it's electronic medical records, this is not clerical. It has to be entered. 

 

It was entered by a nurse practitioner at three in the morning. So we got that changed. But if he had coded between three in the morning when they wrote that note, and by the time I was only allowed to talk to someone after eight o'clock a.m, he wouldn't be here today.

Christian Elliot

Yeah. It's a miracle of the the things he went through. He was he ventilated? Wasn't he?

Lori Simpson

Didn't he experience ventilated twice?

Christian Elliot

Um and the what's the survival rate of the people who were on a vent during COVID? How many survived?

Lori Simpson

10%.

Christian Elliot

Yeah. So he's one of the 10%.

Lori Simpson

The first time he was ventilated, um, his values were so low he needed extra support. And I could see that, but his values were so low because of not treating the infection that he went in for for a month and a half. They refused to do sputum samples, they refused to do common procedures that we have been doing for decades, and they just refused. They just never did that. 

 

Um, they did have a molevoquin, which he didn't respond to. So obviously, we needed a change of antibiotic. At one point, he was on a step-down unit, but he was transferred off the ICU onto a unit where they said they housed COVID-positive patients. And he had been in bed for a month at that point, and I asked for therapies.

 

 And so they came and tried to sit him up, and he was so dizzy, and they wouldn't give him any medication to help with the dizziness because he was malnourished, because he was weakened, any of us with all those drugs and no nutrition or hydration would not be able to get up and walk.

Christian Elliot

Yeah.

Lori Simpson

So they were working on it. And that's when they applied a CPAP machine at first, really high levels. He ended up uh just kind of fighting it, and that pressure was going into his lungs. He'd never been on a machine like that before.

 

 Um, but I did get the doctor on that unit to prescribe doxycycline, which I know he responds to, and his white blood count cell, uh, the infection marker went down for the very first time during the hospitalization when they had him on that. And then I don't recall what excuse they used to transfer him back to the ICU. And he was transferred back and they immediately stopped that.

 

 And within a few days, I was able to visit, you know, the 10 or 20 minutes a day. Within a few days, though, I got a call and they said, uh, we need to ventilate him, and you can choose to ventilate him or you can make him a DNR. And I said, I am not making him a DNR. I need to come in and talk to him about this because he is alert and he never wanted this, and I don't feel comfortable making that decision for him. 

 

And they said, Oh no, this is we have to do this right away. He is in trouble, and if we don't do it, he'll be dead.

Christian Elliot

Yeah, so but you have a your options are take the 90% chance a ventilator will kill him, or give him the do not resuscitate order, which would also be right. So, and you're like option C, please. So you you had that were you able to wedge yourself back physically present in the hospital at this point, or were you still mainly I was.

Lori Simpson

I was, and it's it's amazing that um when I read the chart, it says that that doctor fully informed me of the risks and benefits of ventilation and went over all of the reasons with me in great detail and answered all my questions about uh about the vent. That's what's written in the in the record.

Christian Elliot

Right, which did or did not happen.

Lori Simpson

Did not happen.

Christian Elliot

Weird, did not happen. Yeah, we're gonna talk later, people, about the what happens in medical records and the falsifications and so on that you ought to be aware of. But I want to keep on keep you on the story for now. So, any other details you want to fill in, or I can a couple of years.

Lori Simpson

So I ended up um not going in to work that day and going in as fast as I could. So as soon as visiting hours opened for the day, I was there. I was waiting outside the hospital doors. And he was not ventilated four hours after they said it was so emergent that he had to be ventilated immediately.

 

 Uh, they were still finishing up the process when I arrived. And he was massively sedated. And the nurse that I don't know why she she disliked me, um, she was a nurse that would rip up notes that I had from outside providers. She would rip up questions that I would write down in front of me

 

. She would just take the paper. At one point, I wrote down questions for the doctor, and I said, Can you please see that the doctor gets this? These are questions that I have. She took the paper and just ripped it. So, this same nurse, my favorite nurse, Anne, um, a young woman, um, it was amazing to me. Um, I was nursing long before she was probably born. So maybe my, I don't know, maybe it was showing showing on my face. But I walked into that room with him vented, and she came over to me and she shoved a big bag of his personal possessions at my chest, knocked me backwards, and said, You need to take these home.

 

 You can take them out to the car now. And I said, Why? Why am I taking his possessions? Well, we can't be responsible for them anymore. And I said, Well, you've been responsible for them for a month and a half, and now all of a sudden you can't be responsible. And he's been sedated all of this time. No, he's not going to need them anymore. So I looked in the bag and I took out his scriptures, his Bible, his glasses, his phone, and I was allowed to leave his Bible and his scriptures. I was not allowed to leave his glasses to read his phone. 

 

Yeah, long after that, when he was more alert, I nurse was surprised because they would constantly put sports on the TV for him when he was knocked out. John doesn't want sports on TV, that's not his thing. But that's what they were doing. Um the nurse uh said to me over the phone, Well, he doesn't seem that interested. I said, He can't see it. He wears glasses. 

 

Oh, he has glasses? I said, No, he doesn't have them because you made me take them home. So um he was on the vent for six days and then he started to over-breathe the vent. People who don't need ventilation will start to try and fight the vent to breathe on their own. So they had to take him off because he was fighting the vent. So he was on for six days. So they didn't get their full reimbursement. So within three days after that, now during those three days, I was banned from the hospital. 

 

And I was banned from the hospital because I visited one day and I came up to the room. And when you are first ventilated, you have tape on your cheeks, and that holds a tube that goes down your throat in place. When I arrived at the room one day, and you had to sign in in the first floor of the hospital before you went up to ICU, so they would know I'm coming. 

 

When I came in, it was detached from one side, and he was thrashing his head about, mostly sedated, clearly uncomfortable. I walked into the room, I turned around immediately and tried to find someone to report that this was loose and that he was in distress. Um, there was no one on the unit. 

 

There was no unit clerk, there was no nurse on the ICU, the unit was bare. I finally found a nurse that was coming out of the ladies' room. I guess she didn't get the memo. And I said, He's in trouble. He needs help. Um, oh, well, I'll call respiratory. So I went back in, put my hands on top of the anchors to keep it in place to maintain the airway. And then his nurse just happens to show up and says, What are you doing? You don't have gloves on. 

 

And I said, Your gloves on the wall aren't sterile anyway, and that's what you just put on. I'm holding his cheeks. I'm not touching a mucous membrane. He's in distress. I'll hold this until respiratory comes. Um, so I did when respiratory showed up. I backed away so they could do their thing and reattach. There was a note written on me within 24 hours that I was trying to remove his EET tube. Basically, I was trying to kill him, that I refused to step away from the bedside, that I was using non-stral technique, that I was rude to the nurse, many other things. 

 

It was a full page, very long, detailed note. So for the second time during his hospitalization, I reported falsification of the medical record because I had reported it early on in his stay. I don't know why it certainly didn't get me anywhere. What I got back from that was, oh no, this is all true. We checked with the nurse.

Christian Elliot

Really?

Lori Simpson

So I was called at work uh on day three after he was on the vent, off the vent, and they said I needed to come into the hospital for a meeting to discuss my visitation privileges.

Christian Elliot

We need privileges to see those we care about when they're in duress. Oh my gosh.

Lori Simpson

So when I arrived, there were three guys, all of them were six foot something, and you know, I'm five foot five. I'm not that threatening, but I guess they saw me that way. And I walked into the front door of the hospital. 

 

All of a sudden, these three guys come towards me. I was like a little goon squad, and I was already in fight or flight. Um, so I go into the ladies' room because I'd been on a drive for an hour, so I needed that, but I'm also calling Truth for Health, a nurse that was supporting me, who had helped us obtain an attorney who had made some calls to the hospital and is talking to her from the stall. 

 

The woman who checked people in and made sure that we all sanitized our hands also came into the bathroom while I was in there and then left again. So by the time I came out, one of the big guys was standing right outside the lady's room. And I said to him, as I was advised to say, that I'm not going to take the meeting because it is not about what I was told it was about. I was told I was going to be able to talk to the nurse manager about the note and about the falsifications and be able to give my side of the story. 

 

It was really just a meeting to ban me. And he said, if you don't take the meeting, your visiting uh privileges are suspended immediately. So I went back into the CEO's office. It's amazing how involved the CEO was with patient care. That's highly unusual, not how I was raised. And there were eight people there, and two of the big guys stood by the door. 

 

I don't know what they thought I was gonna do to, I guess, keep me in there. And there was really no discussion. I picked up my phone because I was told that I could have a support person on the phone with me. So I was gonna have the nurse from Truth for Health on the phone with me. 

 

The CEO said to me, There will not be any witnesses to this meeting. Hang up the phone. Wow. And basically he said, You're banned. We've reviewed the records, and you may not come and see your husband anymore. You need to leave immediately, and we'll be charging you with trespasses, trespassing if you are seen on hospital grounds again. And two of the guys led me to the front door. 

 

I went willingly, they didn't have to escort me. And there was one waiting on the outside of the doors. And when I got through the doors, I immediately wanted to call the truth for health nurse. 

 

So I got away from the building and started to make the call. This guy comes up and grabs me by the arm. I wasn't thinking at the time I probably should have charged them with assault, but he grabbed me and he wasn't going to let me go. I shook myself free and I ran to my car. And for the first time and only time and since, um, because I've been to that hospital for births, um, security, like four security cars, were roaming the parking lot, the visitor parking lot. 

 

I haven't I didn't see that before that, and I haven't seen it since. And I leave at two in the morning sometimes from that hospital. There's no security out there, but I was such a threat. They needed to get rid of me. But I had asked questions. I had tried to bring in a pulmonary consult, an infectious disease person, people who had privileges.

Christian Elliot

You think it was their awareness that you knew their legal vulnerabilities or you had documentation? Like that was it just that simple cover their butt type of reason for banning you?

Lori Simpson

Well, uh, Todd Callender, who worked for Truth for Health at the time and now does things for the military, had called the hospital on our behalf and told them that we wanted John transferred and um that he's not afraid to sue hospitals. And that was the end of that conversation. 

 

It only happened once. So um during discharge planning, every call that discharge planning made to home care, they made sure that they knew that that the home care knew that I was a litigious person. Now I had never threatened them, and I didn't even know what what um Todd had had told them. 

 

Um they just it was common, it was common during COVID to get family members with any amount of knowledge out of there. Sounds like and the consults that I had arranged were consults where those doctors had agreed to go see John and had privileges at the hospital. It was also on the record that I um had harassed community physicians and they were upset with me because I was unrelenting and harassed community physicians to try and get them to come and see him. Yeah, I didn't even know community physicians. I'm not wasn't from here, so I didn't really know people.

Christian Elliot

Wow.

Lori Simpson

So I was banned, and then um lo and behold, two days later I get another call uh from the hospital saying that he needs to be re-intubated or I can make him a DNR. Again, and they added to that, and I said, and this time we're doing a trache.

Christian Elliot

A trache. So for people who don't know, what is a trache?

Lori Simpson

I'll cut into the um esophagus, not the esophagus, the um trachea, a cut into the trachea um to allow access because you can't have an EET tube irritating the trachea for a long time. You'll get erosion of the area. Now, John hadn't been on it that long, it really wasn't time to do a tracheostomy, but they saw this, they saw him as a permanent patient.

Christian Elliot

Geez, okay, so tell people about the inappropriate meds they put him on and how much weight he lost in the hospital.

Lori Simpson

John went into the hospital at 186 pounds. He came out at 128 pounds. I could just lift him easily. And since I was caring for him myself, that was somewhat helpful. Um, the meds that they were using, um All suppressed respirations. I don't know if he ever got Remdisivir. 

 

We don't think that he did, but we're not able to get the records of the meds that were administered in the hospital, even though we had had lawyers and had subpoenaed them. The hospital has avoided sending us the electronic medical record, the MARs that show what was actually administered. But I could see what they were ordering. I couldn't see what he was actually receiving.

Christian Elliot

Okay.

Lori Simpson

So he got the standard cocktail of uh anti-anxieties, um, anti-uh depressants. They had put him on Prozac on day one. He'd never been depressed in his life, but they just put him on Prozac. And that has lasting effects on the body. We're still that.

Christian Elliot

Yes, go back and listen to my interview with Kim Witzak if you want somebody to back up that what Lori just said there.

Lori Simpson

So right. So um basically all the meds that they used were meds that would sedate his body, keep him unconscious, and suppress respirations, not enhance them. He was also on steroids from the very beginning until he was discharged. 

 

And so he ended up with steroid-induced diabetes, which we have since resolved, but that took a very long time. So his blood sugars were very erratic because of that, because of the steroid.

 

 He also ended up with the beginning of a sacral wound. He had five hospitalizations after we got him out of this hospital for brachycardia, for aphib, or the heart just goes or beats erratically and can kill you. And eventually he became demented. He became demented, even though he was a brilliant guy. He is again, but um, because his carbon dioxide was so high and continued to creep up after discharge to 138 when it should never be above 40 blood gas. 

 

But they didn't do blood gases before they sent him home. So they sent him home a mess. They had wanted him to go to an acute rehab. They picked two for us. One had um wrongful death suits against it, the other was two hours from our home and wouldn't take him unless I agreed that he could go on Medicaid for at least three months. He could stay at least three months. 

 

That I wasn't gonna allow that to happen, and I didn't want to lose what little resources we had left. And so I quit my job to rehab him and to try and get him back. When I went to school, we were not well trained in respiratory issues or respiratory care. So I talked to the frontline nurses, which was a great organization during COVID, and one of the frontline nurses from Pennsylvania allowed me to come up and renew trait care with her and to practice on a young man who had cerebral palsy, which was so helpful because the hospital was supposed to train me. 

 

Um, I was allowed to come in. We hired a private respiratory therapist too, because I just wanted that back up because it had been too many years since I had hands-on, been doing anything hands-on with respiratory. So we hired someone to stay with us for three days after he came home because he had not just an oxygen concentrator, but also um, he had dual oxygen. 

 

He was getting it through the nasal cannula and through the trach. Highly unusual. So we had to pay for one because insurance is only going to pay for one. And so the compressor, which was handling this, failed after we were home for a few days. And so I had to send him over to the hospital because I thought the compressor failed. 

 

Actually, the compressor did fail, but we also found out that he had hospital acquired pneumonia, which would have been his fourth pneumonia since he was admitted to the hospital. The original that he went in with, which was aspiration pneumonia, and then three more that happened from use of the vent and other procedures at the hospital.

Christian Elliot

Wow.

Christian Elliot

Okay, so and you had done a lot. Just I want to give people some other context. You had done media appearances, you had tried to find legal help, you had reached out to different organizations who knew about the, let's just call it the COVID fraud. The if you for people who don't know, we won't get too in the weeds here, but the amount of money hospitals got paid for everything they could code for COVID, for deaths, for ventilators, for Remdisivir, all of it. And so you went through this ringer trying desperately to get help, and still it took three months to get him officially out of the hospital.

Lori Simpson

They did not discharge him until he started to improve on the vent again. And I guess they figured they were not going to get that death bonus. They got the bonus for having him on the vent long enough because he remained on the vent. 

 

They didn't even try and wean him until he was ready to come home. So he did not come home with a vent. He came home with a trache. So I had to do trach care, but he did not come home with the vent. We had the compressor for this and we had nasal cannula. Very odd combo. Um, he ended up with a vent after his carbon dioxide rose. He had hypercarbnia, he still does, or hypercapnia um still has that because of the damage caused by the pressure of the vent and by over-oxygenation.

 

 So early on, and one of the common of the 25 things they do to these people is up the oxygen and up the oxygen and up the oxygen beyond what you need, and you end up with oxygen toxicity and scarring in the lungs from the pressure. So he has uh pulmonary fibrosis, scarring in the lungs and emphysema, which he never had before and should not have gotten from aspiration pneumonia.

Christian Elliot

Yeah, it's amazing he survived all of this. What is it, 60 pounds of weight he lost over that three months?

Lori Simpson

Yeah, yeah, an amazing, amazing amount. Yeah. Just skin and bones when he got home.

Christian Elliot

Yeah.

Lori Simpson

So he went to the case.

Christian Elliot

I got to meet him. And he is it's it's remarkable. It just a calm, jovial with it presence that he was having lived through what he has. And I just every time you tell the story, I pick up new details.

Lori Simpson

But John is a very um congenial, nice, kind guy. Um, you know, I guess that happens with a lot of marriages. You get a type A that marries someone who's, you know, more passive. And that's what that's what's going on here. So I'm not passive. And part of what got me banned. 

 

But since then, I've learned better advocacy skills so that I'm not going to be banned from from anything. So um, so he had many hospitalizations for heart issues, for declining oxygen for the hospital-acquired pneumonia. Five days after he left the one hospital, he went back into a different one, same system, but within that same system, there were doctors at this other hospital that would prescribe ivermectin, that would listen to patients. 

 

And I was embraced at that hospital. They asked me about everything. They allowed us to use supplements, they allowed me to um refuse the proton pump inhibitors because hospitals seemed to think we need to uh decrease everybody's stomach acid. And we had known for years that John needed bentine hydrochloride because he doesn't have enough. So he wasn't gonna digest those tube feedings that he was now on because they also gave him um a stomach tube, you know, after he had been on the vent for quite some time because they were gonna kill him from malnutrition. They wouldn't have gotten paid for that one. 

 

So um they did um do a tube feed. Wow, okay twice for for uh surgery for that. Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing. So got him off the two feed, got him off the it took a year. Um, I had decannulated him in December. He got out of the hospital in April. I decannulated him in December of 22, but it wasn't until April that we had to have the trach surgically closed because he was on a vent until four months ago.

Christian Elliot

When you say you decannulated and you took that nasal oxygen. Okay, okay.

Lori Simpson

But then we still had a wound. Um, and then four to it was four to six months ago that he was able to get off of a nighttime ventilator here at home. He ended up on a ventilator finally. He should have had one all along after they did the damage uh when he went into the hospital for 30 days, his fifth hospitalization in 22. And that's when he developed a decubidae pressure wound on the sacrum so deep that it took a year to heal, and lots of special, um special three-time-a-day care.

Christian Elliot

Man, okay, so that's a framing story that should be eyes wide open for all of us. Somebody that has worked in the system understands the pitfalls of it, knows the how the administration works, what's supposed to happen, what access we're supposed to have, all of that. Sups and Lori has awareness of that and had it going into that, and yet she still went through that scenario. 

 

So then let's let's pause that story and let's go pivot to you know what happened after that and the work that you've gotten into. So now you work as a doula and talk about what led you into that work, and then we'll even get into the advocacy piece of how that relates to the way that you now interact with the hospital system.

Lori Simpson

Yes. Um, so when John became more independent finally in January of 23 and he returned to work, um, he didn't need me to watch over him 24 hours a day anymore. Prior to that, I could be up 12 times a night. Um I was on 24-hour duty for a year. Um and I just couldn't see. 

 

I was watching job postings and everything, but I just couldn't see myself going back into that system, being having to fight the COVID vaccine requirements, which were still there, and and just being in that setting where I was watching harm happening. You know, we did vaccine um clinics, we would vaccinate hundreds and we had 12 people die in one weekend after a vaccine clinic um at a large retirement community that I worked at. 

 

And I in one 12 in one weekend, large, large campus, but still incredibly high. I I couldn't see myself going back into that. I actually was eventually diagnosed with PTSD from my great innovative doctor. Um, I didn't take any meds or do anything about it. I just thought, okay, I'm just gonna muscle through this. But it's it was a challenge. It was definitely a challenge. So by spring, I still wasn't back at work.

 

 I was talking to my daughter and she said, you know, I'm thinking about looking into becoming a doula. And I go, I could do that. Um now she is EDS, and so it would have been difficult for her, but I'm thinking, I love babies, I have the medical knowledge, this would be easy for me. And so I started looking for trainings and I did a weekend training and then a bunch of reading that came with that. I just didn't feel that was sufficient because I was trained to have book knowledge and then to have clinicals, and I really wanted a lot more education than that. 

 

So eventually I actually did a year's course. I did Spinning Baby's Parent Educator. I am still um, I'm currently in a course with Body Ready method, which is kind of like spinning babies next level clinical. And so, and and the um the advocacy, the advocacy training to become certified as a perinatal patient advocate, because you cannot go into a hospital for any reason without having advocacy skills or an advocate by your side.

Christian Elliot

Well, especially with your the story we just told, the importance of having an advocate is everything. So for somebody that doesn't know Adula is a birth assistant, somebody, and you can define this more uh any way you want, but give people a little window into what work Adula does and the idea of how you help people create a birth plan, and then we'll go from there.

Lori Simpson

Well, I because I'm an old nurse, I do um I do la differently. I do at least uh four prenatals, eight hours of education after, and several hours of education and support after the birth. So eight hours before and then after. 

 

And we cover everything from body alignment, pelvic alignment, uh, body and mind readiness, all of the common interventions, pros and cons in normal birth education, plus birth rehearsal advocacy skills for the couple, but particularly for the dad. And um, I let them know how I'll be advocating for them. Also, I act as a medical witness in a hospital setting because it's necessary.

 

 And so I pull all of that training together along with the comfort measures and the nutrition and all of that, because it's a holistic experience, even though it's a natural physiologic one.

Christian Elliot

And you can do home births or assist in hospital births too, is that correct? I do. Okay. So with that, then creating a birth plan is just essentially inventorying what how the woman would like it to go, pre-decisions about what interventions she'll accept or she doesn't want and that sort of thing. So tell us how how many times have you seen a birth plan stick to the plan once the hospital is introduced into the equation?

Lori Simpson

In a hospital, yeah, uh, there's always going to be some point where that birth plan is violated or consent is violated. Um, I can't say that that is true of every birth of every doula, of every woman in a hospital, but that has been my experience. That um I always come away from a birth, and my poor husband has to listen to me rant and relive and re-examine something that happened during that birth that was inappropriate or violated consent.

Christian Elliot

Okay. Well, give us a story or three or five of maybe the top number of things that shocked you, surprised you, that have are something a woman or her partner could be aware of going into a hospital setting where they want this to happen. And how does the system, cleverly or just by the nature of what it is, redirect someone into something off the plan?

Lori Simpson

You know, most young women are aware that pushing in lithotomy position on your back, pushing your baby out uphill is not the best way to do it. It's um for the convenience of the provider. Yet uh in two births, that's what happened to my clients because physicians would not allow them to change positions. They get them into that position because they want to do a vaginal check or exam of the cervix to see if they're ready to push, to give them permission to push, which they don't need.

Christian Elliot

Um having watched my wife give birth six times, I can definitely say there's no She knows, nobody needs to tell her. It just happens, yes.

Lori Simpson

But then they're so they're on their back for that exam, and lo and behold, okay, it was time to start pushing. And if the provider doesn't leave the room, if they remain there, sometimes the woman is trapped. So I had a woman um up on a cub, comfortable, which is like a um almost like a blow-up birth chair on top of the bed. She was comfortable, she was doing well. 

 

The physician came in, and I guess this physician has her way of doing things. And the nurse said, Should I get you your chair? And she goes, Oh no, no, um, I don't really like this position, but we'll just see how it goes. And then all of a sudden, the baby apparently had a D cell, and she said, Oh, we're gonna have to change this position immediately. The baby's heart rate's gone to 70. Well, she allowed the person to stay in that position for three more contractions. If it was really emergent, we would have had to change it faster. So the nurse that I was working with, we were we were kind of bonded. 

 

She was really good. Uh, we did get her into a better position. Like, was able to get some things underneath her so her sacrum would be to move and she could birth the baby. But the physician used something she knew I was acting as a medical witness. So she pulls out this medical excuse about why the woman had to change position. Not that she didn't want to deliver in that position, but she wasn't comfortable. 

 

That same physician also said after the birth, oh, she's lost 400 milliliters of blood. And the nurse looked at her and she goes, How would you like me to document that? Just put down 400. And the dad and I, our eyes met because we knew this, I mean, this was the least amount of blood I've ever seen lost in a birth. Because they have these little catch drapes that they put under you these days in the hospital. Um, it was so that she could give pitocin, which would clamp down the uterus, but would also deliver that placenta faster. 

 

And then something women really need to know, you know, all hospitals say that you're going to get the golden hour. You're going to get skin to skin with your baby, uninterrupted bonding for an hour. No, it doesn't happen in a hospital because the nurse, your nurse, your postpartum nurse has to come in every 15 minutes to give you fundal massage, whether you need it or not. 

 

Not just a nice quiet little fundal assessment, but an actual massage. So that disrupts everything. And then the baby nurse has to come in and take the temperature of the baby every 15 minutes, and they certainly don't coordinate those visits. And then people just pop in the door to see how you're doing, is definitely not interrupted. 

And that always happens after they repair any perineal tears, which may have occurred spontaneously or may have occurred because, in violation of the woman's birth plan, providers often can't help but want to put their hands on your baby or your perineum, and often want to do internal perineal massage with miner oil, with ultrasound gel, with baby oil, so many things that disrupt the microbiome of the vagina that you're hoping the baby's gonna get. 

 

And as they pull up on the top of the vagina, as the baby's head is crowning and you're already stretched to the max, tears are happening. And many times I have seen the provider cause a second or third degree tear, and then it'll take 45 minutes or so for them to sew up the layers of a tear that they contributed to.

Christian Elliot

Yeah.

Lori Simpson

So that happens.

Christian Elliot

So much for a golden hour.

Lori Simpson

There's there's nothing golden about it. And then it's really hard to help the woman get the first latch and allow the baby to do the breast crawl because they're coming in and they're rubbing your baby and they're taking the vernix off, even if you tell them not to do that. Oh, we have to stimulate the baby.

 

 We have to. The baby is yelling, the baby is fine, their airway is open, but they don't see physiological birth, so they don't really realize that baby's just fine. You don't need to suction, you don't need to harm the back of the throat with the bulb syringe. The baby's just fine. But that is not how it happens, even in women-friendly hospitals or baby-friendly hospitals.

Christian Elliot

Yeah, I can say from having six home births essentially, that every single time we got the golden hour. We just get this precious time standstill while basking in what just happened moment where the mom and baby are bonding and you don't have a care in the world. And so that to juxtapose against what you just mentioned of how it tends to go in the hospital, it is possible to have the opposite experience. Um, so it is, it is.

Lori Simpson

I have been at home person, it's beautiful. We don't flip the lights on, and we don't have 10 to 11 people come into the room when they get on the radio and say room four is pushing, and then a massive influx of people come in and the lights come on, and you know, there goes your labor flow.

Christian Elliot

Right. You just feel like you're not gonna be able to do that.

Lori Simpson

The baby could latch, we wouldn't need the pitocin for a physiological birth because the uterus would clamp down because the baby is nursing. But the mom is so preoccupied with being sewn up with all these assessments, it's very difficult to help her have that first latch in that first hour, which affects breastfeeding long term.

Christian Elliot

Yeah. Okay, so before we leave the kind of the doula realm and your the experience of birthing, there's one other thing that's it's touchy and it's hard to um swallow some, but you've mentioned to me the difference in placentas that you've seen with vaccinated people who took the COVID shots and people who did not. 

 

So just so we have that awareness and this is not to scare anybody, just to give them a eyes wide open as to the differences that you have noticed. Talk about some of what you've seen or heard relative to the differences in a placenta from a COVID vaxxed and unvaxxed woman.

Lori Simpson

Um originally, uh, when I was looking into placental encapsulation, I did see a number of placentas that other um midwives and doolas had been there for the delivery of. And they were highlighting them because the tissue Was shreddable. It was not as it didn't look as um like a spider web like fascia would, but it was almost like a hamburger meat could pull it apart, fragile, very fragile, very flat, which is interesting because in in encapsulation I've had, you know, nice plump, fat, um, like an inch, inch and a half placenta when you lay it out. 

 

And then personally, I worked with a nurse from the same hospital system that injured my husband, who had to get her for initial COVID shot, two boosters, and a follow-up booster. It was nine months between her last booster and her conception, so about 18 months before she delivered her son. And her placenta was full of golf ball size clots. The entire thing, the entire surface that connected, that was connected to her uterus, not the baby side. But when we turned it over, golf ball slides clots, it's amazing that the the baby survived or that that didn't detach.

Christian Elliot

Yeah. So one, just awareness of that. Two is to say, yeah, if you had the shots, maybe don't get any more. And three, this it there still was a successful birth after that, right? There is. There's something.

Lori Simpson

However, I have two IVF clients coming up.

Christian Elliot

So tell me what IVF is.

Lori Simpson

Uh in vitro fertilization to help people that are having fertility issues. And I know that the client that I'm working with right now had told me that they could not come up with a reason for her infertility. Um, but they still pushed her towards IVF. It's very profitable. And so they have conceived, and she's ending, coming up on the end of her pregnancy, but she had had the COVID vaccines and boosters previously. 

 

And the other IVF client that I had had also had COVID boosters. She's actually in her mid-20s, and also no reason for infertility that they can come up with. They're not looking at the vaccine.

Christian Elliot

Right. That yeah, that's anything but vaccine disease is a common diagnosis. It can't be that. So it has to be something besides that, is often how that's true.

Lori Simpson

I can't say that that's what's contributing to their infertility, but yeah, but if we won't look at it, we can't rule it out either.

Christian Elliot

So that's that's it's the most honest assessment we can make is say maybe, and something to ponder because it is there, you're not the first person in this line of work who I have heard say things like that, where they go, There's something different since COVID shots have rolled out that is happening in the birthroom that we have never seen before. 

 

So one, that the body's amazing at healing, and there's so many um ways it can do that. So you're not without hope, but it's at least we're acknowledging and you know, marking for the historical record on some way that we have seen something worth um repeating and bringing awareness to. So is that fair? Is anything you want to add to that?

Lori Simpson

No, no, I think that's uh that's what I've seen directly. I've heard much more, but you know, I can't testify to it.

Christian Elliot

Okay, cool. Well, thank you for that. So let's so with I wanted you all to hear that background and then to make we're more specific to the birthing world here, but let we're gonna broaden it back to just advocacy in general, because what you do, you had to become an advocate just so essentially they couldn't kick you out of the hospital and you could stay there to do your doula work or paint yourself as a medical witness, which I you told me last time we talked was a term that they that gets their attention. 

 

So let's talk about the average person who at some point any of us are going to probably need to go take ourselves or a loved one to the hospital. So if there's a scenario that comes up, there's essentially there's two scenarios. One, there's you've prepared in advance and you have some working knowledge of some of what you can do or your rights and so on. And then there's the real time just responding to what's going on and the temperament or system that is in front of you. 

 

So talk us through some of, we'll just start with the preparation in advance. You did a lot of that, but two, you know, one thing you pointed me to to get more familiar with was the I do not consent forms and just having some sort of documentation that you keep on your phone, in your pocket, and your you know, mailbox, wherever you need it, so that you can go quickly grab something that gives a record of what you are prepared and unprepared to accept in a hospital setting. 

 

So let's start there in the in the pre-prepared phase. What are some things people can do to protect themselves preemptively in the scenario that they might need to go to the hospital?

Lori Simpson

Well, they should have an advanced directive with what they will and will not accept. They should have a medical power attorney and a second secondary medical power of attorney who can speak for them should they become unconscious on purpose or for whatever. 

 

And the I Do Not Consent forms uh can be found in Dr. Ariana's um Substack. And they recommend that the form is filled out and is notarized, and you just hold it. And should you need to go to the hospital, you have it delivered to the director of the hospital by courier so that there's a record that they have received it. And then it has to be entered into your patient record of what you are not consenting to, what you refuse to give consent to.

Christian Elliot

Does that delivery need to precede going in, or do you just once you've entered, then you get that delivered by courier?

Lori Simpson

Well, you you want to kind of investigate who who the couriers are in your area so you know who to call, but um, you won't necessarily know you're going into the hospital. And so you get that done as soon as you can after someone has been admitted, or you call the ambulance and you call the courier service to get that delivered. So you have that form prepared and just late, waiting, just waiting.

Christian Elliot

It's almost like having a will and just get it done.

Lori Simpson

You can add to it, you know, if we get another pandemic with some, you know, the NIPA virus or or something comes along, you can add to that, and it's still legal. So it's a good idea to have your documents prepared in advance. Um, you know, I waited until the last minute with John because I never thought I would need it, but we never know. Could be a traffic accident, could be anything that happens suddenly.

 

But know who the couriers are in your area and have many copies of your I Do Not Consent form, your advance directive, your medical power of attorney, and have it delivered to the hospital by courier so it is recorded and has to be entered into your medical record as soon as you can. Okay, great.

Christian Elliot

And I'll have a link for you all in the show notes where you can find the I Do Not Consent form and just give you some more guidance on how you could prepare that. Have it in your purse, just anywhere you can have your wallet, have it anywhere so that that's you're prepared for it. Um, another thing that I had an experience of needing to take someone, my dad in particular, to the hospital. 

 

And on the wall, they had a flyer that said the patient bill of rights. So I snapped a picture of that in order to aggressively read that and synthesize what I might be able to do. So tell us also about the patient bill of rights, because a lot of us don't know what rights we do have when we enter a hospital or what might be. I guess my question for you is is that standardized across every state? Is it unique to the hospital system? Is it um what is the patient bill of rights?

Lori Simpson

A little bit different. Um, each hospital system will have their own. Now, I was told, because I brought that up during my husband's uh stay, that the patient rights did not apply during COVID because we were in a state of emergency, which is not true. The constitution never went away, the patient rights never went away. 

 

Um and we don't actually start there when we're trying to advocate for something that we want or don't want in a hospital. Because as soon as you say, um, you know, I have a right to this because your documentation says I do, it kind of uh elevates the animosity that they might have towards you choosing something outside of their protocol. But it we we use it, we lit we use it as a last uh resort. 

 

Um there is something called Mtala, Emergency Treatment and Labor Act, that says if you show up at any hospital that has a labor and delivery unit, that they cannot send you away if you're in active labor and they don't have to do a vaginal exam to confirm it. Um, they have to admit you until your baby and placenta are delivered. Um, because a lot of times women are being sent away. 

 

Oh, you're not, you don't look like you're in active labor and you won't accept a vaginal exam. So I'm sorry you can't come in. Well, that's how people end up delivering by the side of the road. Um but patient bill of rights typically and always has said that you have a right to dignified care, that you have a right to ask questions about and and receive information about what's being recommended to you. 

 

You have a right um to receive food and I mean it basically talks about your human rights as a human, which you know, we're not always being seen as a human anymore. We enter into a hospital.

Christian Elliot

Yeah, the one I saw, the one that was at the hospital I went to, had the right to have an advocate, which is why I got to leverage that one. Is that standard or is that not so standard?

Lori Simpson

That's pretty standard. Okay. And that's why I don't just go into the doula anymore. They can throw me out of the doula because they have doula contracts that aren't legal uh that are popping up everywhere, because there are some doulas that give us a bad name. But as an advocate, we're supposed to be able to stay.

Christian Elliot

Yeah.

Lori Simpson

And as a medical witness, we're supposed to be able to stay.

Christian Elliot

Yeah. So when the government brushes aside or when systems brush aside constitution and your rights for a so-called emergency, you may have to get a little more um combative if necessary, but at least at least that gets you thrown out.

Lori Simpson

You know, that's what I tell my dads when I teach them the advocacy skills, because the same tool coming from a dad means a lot more than coming from me as the doula. So I teach the dads, and I work with a lot of military couples, and I have had uh military dads say to me, if that doctor thinks he's going to do such and such, you know, I'm gonna take care of it. I said, Your wife needs you, we don't want you escorted out. 

 

We're going to use our words and we're going to use legal words, and we're going to be grateful. Even if we're not grateful, we're going to show gratitude. We're going to humanize the room, see them as a human, and hopefully get reciprocation. Not always happens, but that's our that's our side. That's what we're responsible for.

Christian Elliot

As as the advocate, you're you're the one there to calm the room down and the person's wishes are respected or advocated for that and that they have all the information because a lot of times they will leave key elements of their recommendations out. Yeah. Well, my story with my dad, I had when I took him in, his oxygen was low, similar to your experience with your husband. 

 

And um as soon as you walk in the door, they're like trying to strap a mask on. I'm like, he has low oxygen. Help me understand how restricting that is going to help him be um so initially I was cordial and trying to understand, and they eventually wouldn't even let me in the lobby because I had I refused to wear a mask, so I just waited outside. And they wheeled him out and a mask to put him back in the waiting room. 

 

And I went back in there and I'm like, No, he this this guy has um he's low oxygen. Please explain to me. Can we please stick an oxygen meter under that to confirm that this is not helpful for his ability to get oxygen right now? They didn't like it. They wanted to kick me out again. I pulled up my phone and said, This is the patient bill of rights.

 

 It's on your wall. It says that he needs an advocate, and I'm it, and you have to deal with me. And the nurses like didn't know, you could you could tell she was uncomfortable, didn't really know how to handle somebody that challenged her. But short version is they gave us our own room, and sure enough, there was there's a there's a place for us. We can sit here without our mask on and wait to be um allowed back in the room. But talk to me now after the fact. 

 

Like, what could I have or what should I have done better in a scenario like that? We ended up getting in and out of the hospital in a matter of hours. So I I didn't have to get too combative, but I was prepared to fight for him and not end up in a story like what you lived through. So how could I have done that better?

Lori Simpson

Well, you might have said, first of all, I am here acting as my father's advocate. And I don't know if you have medical power or attorney or not, if you do, you mentioned that. And then you can say, you know, it is my experience that these masks uh will reduce the ability for him to take in the oxygen that he is really in need of right now. 

 

Would you be willing to put a cannula underneath that mask so that we can make sure that his saturation remains where it's supposed to be? So we're asking them to do what we want, but we're would you be willing?

Christian Elliot

Yep.

Lori Simpson

And then if they say no, well then may I speak to your supervisor, please? And then hit their supervisor and their supervisor and the uh floor manager for the hospital if it's the middle of the night. There's always someone in the director of nursing office, and then you go up the chain, but you remain calm, you keep your voice steady, and instead of having your voice escalate, you bring it down. I've asked for this. 

 

I believe it's a reasonable request under the patient Bill of Rights. He has a right to respectful and dignified care. I am acting as his advocate. Now it's my understanding that this happens when we put on a mask. 

 

Can you explain to me your reasoning for not wanting to follow through with our request? Help me understand. And you keep, I would like a nasal cannula under that mask at a minimum. At a maximum, I would like our own space so that he can take that mask off.

Christian Elliot

Nice. Yeah, that's way better than how I handled it. So to the listener, thank you.

Lori Simpson

I didn't do that well either when it was my husband, uh, before I was trained as an official advocate, because you're in fight or flight. Right. You care deeply, and you're not thinking about how to be this wonderful advocate.

Christian Elliot

Yeah. Yeah. And the more urgent the scenario, the less rational we become, the more emotional. And it's hard to maintain that. But I love how you just you use the peaceful answer turns away wrath. You use gentle questions to continue to make your problem their problem. And they have to start working to solve your problem or get uh just they are the ones that are then escalating it, not you.

Lori Simpson

Right. And that matters for later on, but it also matters in the moment. And the other thing that you could have done is say it was Nurse Karen who was refusing to remove the mask and give you a nasal cannula or something under there.

 

 And you can just walk out to the nurse's station and say, we really appreciate everything Nurse Karen has done for us so far, but she does not seem to be aligned with how our family treats our health. Could you please assign us a nurse that can work with us in a more cohesive manner?

Christian Elliot

Nice.

Lori Simpson

Oh, well, we're short. Will you please assign us a nurse that can work with us in a more cohesive manner? And you keep reiterating your requests.

Christian Elliot

Over and over. I like it. But and it's the calm that is so key so often in life. It's this spills over to any relationship or interaction where there's tension between humans. It doesn't have to be a hospital setting. It's just we are not at our best when we're emotional. And the the calmest person in the room usually is the one that commands the room.

Lori Simpson

So everything you're with spouses, you know. If you want your wife to do something, you don't say, I need you. You just say, Would you be willing?

Christian Elliot

Yeah, right. Need to show that too. That's never work.

Christian Elliot

You have to.

Christian Elliot

You're her choice.

Lori Simpson

She can say no. Yeah. But she's more likely to say yes because of how you asked her.

Christian Elliot

Yeah. Good tip. Thank you. Us guys need all the tips we could get sometimes. Thank you for that. Okay. So let's talk. We'll come maybe come back to some pointers on this real-time advocacy. 

 

But talk to us a little bit, because it may be relevant to this next segment, about this patient medical record thing or the record keeping and how that really can be weaponized against us, or like in your case, just changed to be things that are not true at all. So what once one person said one thing you can do when you get into the hospital and they're just wave all these waivers in your face to try to get you to sign everything. And the more urgent, the more you're like, I don't care what's on your stupid form. I need to help. And you just sign away so many privileges, rights, you sign away things you would never have consented to. 

 

Somebody told me, and I don't know if this was in your training or not, but you can just write under duress next to your name when you sign that. Is that something that you would advise, or is that a wise step to just give you some wiggle room?

Lori Simpson

I haven't used that technique, but it sounds good. I might use that one. I always ask to have something printed out so that I can cross out initial and date what I do not agree to before I sign it. And if I only have an electronic form, then I use the signature space, which is the only space where you can type things in at times because they want you to agree to everything. 

 

And I specifically list everything in there that I do not consent to, and then I leave it without a signature.

Christian Elliot

Clever. I like that.

Lori Simpson

I date it, but I will not sign it.

Christian Elliot

Yeah. Well, and one thing just for awareness for all of us, that technically, if you're by the FDA standard, vaccines are biologic, which is the same category as supplements. So if that's not on your form, that they if they have something about the administration of biologics, then you might want to make sure you understand or look for that word. And what would you tell somebody to do if they find that?

Lori Simpson

Absolutely not consent, cross it out, initial and date, that you are not consenting to any biologic, then they have to ask you about each and every one as they try to administer it. And they should not legally be allowed to administer it when you're not conscious and cannot give consent. Correct.

Christian Elliot

Okay, great. So another thing that you mentioned when you were helping me prep for this episode was the um, I guess I'll just call it mysterious nature of HIPAA, which is the privacy laws. And so one comment you made was just basically when you sign a HIPAA form, you are giving permission to so many more agencies at the state and federal level than you ever would have imagined can now look at your record. So tell us about what we're signing away. And is there any ever a good reason to sign that, or can we just not sign it and move on?

Lori Simpson

It's difficult not to sign it because everyone believes that you have to sign it. Even the providers believe that you have to sign it. And I recently was at a new eye doctor and I did not sign the hippoform. 

 

Uh, I filled out all their other forms and I said, I don't sign HIPAA forms, and all you need to do is document that the patient refuses to sign. Then you have met your legal obligations and I'm not signing it. So the doctor comes out and talks to me, goes, explain to me why you don't want to sign the HIPAA form. 

 

And I said, Because I don't want to release my private health information that you're collecting today, anything else that is in my extended uh electronic medical record that you can bring up because you're a treating doctor now, because as long as information is used for treatment purposes, whether you're treating my eyes or my foot, uh you can find out everything about me because it's for treatment purposes. I had another eye doctor get a list of all drugs ever prescribed for me from my pharmacy, who had had all drugs ever prescribed for me from other pharmacies because our electric, uh, electronic medical records follow us. 

 

And they got all those and they questioned why I was taking one of those medications. Nothing to do with my eyes and none of their business. But they had pulled it. So when you are signing that they when you when you just even list what pharmacy you use, they can go ahead and request all of your drugs from that pharmacy. So I don't list my pharmacy anymore either. If they want to prescribe for me, I'll tell them then.

Christian Elliot

Yeah.

Christian Elliot

Well, it's almost like it's the opposite of privacy.

Lori Simpson

It's the it is the opposite of privacy.

Christian Elliot

Yeah, under the guise of privacy. It's like any bill they pass in Congress. Just flip the name to the opposite, you're like, oh, that's what that's about. Like the HIPAA thing, it seems sounds like it's the same thing. So now you're saying there's we can just politely decline and let them know, like, I'm the obstinate person. So you can just note that you did your job to ask me to sign.

Lori Simpson

You did your job. You are compliant, you're not going to get in trouble, and I'm not going to sign that form.

Christian Elliot

Yeah.

Christian Elliot

Well, and I I want to highlight that for people. I just read an article this week about how medical records like there, they were looking at all these closed malpractice lawsuits. And in these lawsuits, 61% of the time, medical errors in the records were the reason somebody ended up getting killed or injured or something. And that, so I guess I'm highlighting that to say just because something's in your record, especially in the case of your husband, doesn't mean it's right. And that fake information or false or partly true information can follow you and taint the way any other practitioner would basically work to help you. Am I clear or missing something in that assessment?

Lori Simpson

No, you're exactly right.

Christian Elliot

Okay.

Lori Simpson

You're exactly right. And even the type of doctor you go to see.

Christian Elliot

Yeah.

Lori Simpson

You know, I had to go to uh I couldn't find a non oncology related doctor to do an iron infusion for me. And so therefore I have Virginia cancer specialists in my record now. I do not have cancer. That is not why I was seeing them. But that was the only way I could get the iron infusions for severe anemia. And so now, and I I tried to find someone, and it would have taken six more months to get into a non-oncology-related uh doctor to do that.

Christian Elliot

Well, and they weren't that will kill me. Yeah, when your husband was in the uh ER2, they or the ICU, they would put things on his record that weren't true, which would then you you didn't have a way to get that expunged, where they would put things on on the record that you were some sort of combative, litigious, you know, onerous person. And those kinds of things can follow you in your record as well. Is that accurate?

Lori Simpson

They did. They actually did. Now, I did try to get those things expunged by um, because I was trained that if it's in the medical record, it is gospel truth. You know, that's back when we hand wrote medical records, and it was harder to change them or to insert things without losing whole pages because you'd have a nurse's note, a doctor's note, and it would just continue. With electronic medical records, it is so easy, and there are systems that make them so easy to be modified. 

 

But because all of that was written and there were, I don't know how many red flags within the ANOVA system here in Virginia on his record. The first time he went to the hospital, five days after he left, the first one, the ER would not allow me to be with him in the back, which I had always been with him in the back, um, because he wasn't in any condition to give his medical history. 

 

And I was told that I needed to stay in the waiting room and the doctor would come out and talk to me when they were finished making their assessment. Uh, and then I was told that the doctor was expecting a phone call. She could only give me two minutes. So when she came out, she was already escalated thinking that I was some kind of horrible person. And I heard her phone ring, and I know that they were just calling her from the back. I'm not an idiot. 

 

Um, but she continued to talk to me because as we talked, she realized that I was a reasonable, intelligent, educated person who cared about my husband. And so we we talked for half an hour when she was only going to give me two minutes, but then they were already arranging to send him to another hospital. I wouldn't consent for him to go back, but he went to a different hospital. 

 

And they diagnosed, and I was really surprised because it was the same hospital system. They were willing to write his diagnosis as hospital acquired pneumonia. So he acquired it at the previous hospital within their same system.

Christian Elliot

Yeah. Right. So eyes wide open about medical records and about how easy it is to adjust them now that they're electronic. And what would you say to somebody about the importance of reviewing or getting a record of what's been documented about you?

Lori Simpson

Always, always ask for your records. Keep them, keep a list of what they have. And if there is a violation or an untruth there, you can report that to risk management, which is what I did. I reported falsification of the medical record to risk management, because risk management is there to protect the hospital from suits. 

 

So the first time uh I was somewhat successful in getting the record modified. The second time, when they wrote the fairy tale about me, um, they said, Oh, we talked to the nurse, we investigated it thoroughly, and it's all true. You did all those things.

Christian Elliot

With one side of the story is the believable pillar with no evidence of the contrary.

Lori Simpson

In the labor room, um, if someone uh if you want your pitocin turned off or turned down and they tell you that they can't or they need a doctor's order, and you go through all your advocacy tools on there, you can get to a point where you can say, I'm revoking consent for the pitocin. And please document that I am revoking consent for the pitocin and you're refusing to turn it off. 

 

They're not going to document because they don't want that in the record. But if they do, I always tell the dads, because I can't make a copy of the medical record, but he can or she can take a picture. Document it. Document it in the moment because it could change.

Christian Elliot

Yeah. One of the it's sad to say this, but one of the things the medical system fears is transparency. One of the things they don't want is evidence that not everything they do is above board, or that they honored your consent, or that they weren't just out there to see how much money they could squeeze out of you. If you guys haven't heard my last episode about Dr. Stu talking about all the different ways that people fake bill your insurance for things you never services you never received, that's important to be eyes wide open when you engage the system, what's really going on. So um, Lori, anything else you so we've kind of got the cordial interaction, we've got what happens with the medical records. 

 

Is there anything if this starts to you're kind of running into a situation like situation like what you did where it is contentious? Now it is difficult and you're all you're getting is pushback and stonewalled, or you're getting changes to your own wishes. What's the next what tool could someone use in a scenario like that to increase the probability that they'll get a more favorable outcome when all you're getting is fighting from the system?

Lori Simpson

If you have time, um, if if it's not emergent or they're not in the process of doing something to you, you can always say, I understand your recommendation, I understand my rights, and I am choosing to go in my direction anyway. Um, so you take full responsibility for your choice, or you can offer to sign an AMA to let them off the hook. But sometimes uh against medical advice, it's not just for leaving the hospital, it's for procedures that happen in the hospital. 

 

You can offer to sign and against medical advice, I'm choosing to do A, B, C. But sometimes you just have to insert a phrase, um, no, you know, and put your hand there. You know, if someone's coming at you with a pair of scissors or the dad sees them coming at the wife with a pair of scissors to cut an episiotomy, he puts his hands out and he says, No, we need her consent. Julie, do you give your consent? No, okay. She's not giving her consent. We do not consent. Please document that we are not consenting.

Christian Elliot

Yeah. Put them back on the hot seat essentially to let them know that this doesn't need to go ugly, but it might if you continue this course.

Lori Simpson

It might.

Christian Elliot

Yeah.

Lori Simpson

And there are birth plans where you can write it litigiously, where you put everything down and then you include the name of your lawyer at the bottom. Nice. Um, we can do that for getting the placenta afterwards because sometimes they want to keep that lot of money placenta.

Christian Elliot

Total side note I wanted to ask you, I'm just fascinated. Do you have any idea what happens to the placenta or the blood, or even fast forward for boys, the the foreskin that happens after the circumcision? Like I'm I'm imagining there's a whole industry of like where these things mysteriously disappear to. Do you know anything about that?

Lori Simpson

Cosmetic industry is one. And the hospitals, we cannot sell our organs, but they can. And when it goes to pathology, we don't know what happens to it after that. Um, I still have to figure out why they will take four ounces of cord blood out of a placenta and still do a heel prick on that baby later on. 

 

They're obviously not testing the cord blood. Um, that doesn't make sense to me. And so I counsel all of my clients, even if you are not going to encapsulate your placenta, request it. Bring it home.

Christian Elliot

Yeah. So they can't.

Lori Simpson

I don't care what you do with it. Right. There they're getting your insurance money, they've been paid.

Christian Elliot

Yeah. Okay. So that's just another way that you it's just another thing.

Lori Simpson

And um, I've seen them take more than four ounces, you know, two sample cups of uh blood from a from a C-section mom. I've also had trouble getting a placenta from um a couple where they said she couldn't have it because she had GBS. You know, the evidence is showing that you you can still encapsulate with that, you just have to steam it first, get rid of all the pathogens. 

 

But they pulled out the Virginia Medical Waste Disposal Act to that dad and said you cannot take it home because of this environmental law, which was all bogus. So whatever happened to that placenta, I'm sure it helped padnova's pockets.

Christian Elliot

Man, well, but that's my opinion. Yeah, no, that's all we can do is speculate when there's no transparency. But when you see a system repeat the same thing for reasons they will not disclose over and over, we'd be derelict if we didn't ask the questions.

Lori Simpson

So well, if you do ask, they will tell you it goes to medical waste. Ah, and so that is the answer you always get. I don't know. Does it have to go through pathology to end up in math in medical waste? I don't know. It doesn't make sense to me, but that's my opinion.

Christian Elliot

Okay, well, and we're all entitled to our opinions. Okay, so I guess last resort, if you've used some of the tools you have for trying to de-escalate conflict, now what's what's the downside of our or where might it be appropriate to just pick up and leave? Like we are not theoretically prison.

Lori Simpson

That is an absolute tool. So that's why I advise moms to push back on having their waters broken. But even if they are broken, uh you can still leave that hospital and you can show up at a different hospital because of a la if you are in active labor. 

 

So absolutely have them request to have the uh the IV taken out, the epidural taken out if you have one, and leave against medical advice. You don't actually have to sign anything to leave. You are not officially a prisoner. Um, during COVID, you were, but um no, you can leave.

Christian Elliot

Okay, and then others like a situation like my dad or others that are you're not there for giving birth, but you're there for some other reason. Is there anything else you'd say be aware of? Obviously, if it's life-threatening, be very careful. But is there some scenario where you just get out of there and go find better care?

Lori Simpson

Yeah, yeah, you can uh, and that's what some people did do during COVID, um, especially if they had medical knowledge or the ability to transport their loved ones safely with oxygen tanks or whatever it took. They came in with a wheelchair, they transformed them to the chair, they had their tanks, and they left. Well, that's why I go over NICU protocols and things with my clients. 

 

They may never need it, but it's like a fire drill. You don't want your house to be on fire, but maybe it would be, and you need to know what to do. With children, you have to be very careful about how you utilize the tools, but use the legal language, use the tool, maintain camaraderie, maintain that gracious, thankful attitude because you do not want them calling CPS on you, and you do not want the state taking custody of your child, and there are medical kidnappings everywhere. 

 

So that is a more narrow rope to walk. And it's good to have an advocate there with you and a medical witness in case you do end up in court and you need to fight back to get your child back and to protect them from what they may want to do. And in even in Florida, there was recently a case where a mom wanted to get a second opinion on something that was being recommended to her cerebral palsy child who was doing well in the current treatment. 

 

She made the doctor mad, I guess, because she didn't want to go along with his recommendation. And she's fighting to get her daughter back who was fine and stable, and she was a good mother.

Christian Elliot

Yeah. Well, good words of advice there. I guess my own summary so far is just appreciate and remember that you are a human and theoretically you're interacting with someone else who has a hard flesh as well. They're they're another human who, yes, they have the tighter doctor or nurse or whatever, but they're at the end of the day, they have emotions too. 

 

They they may have had a stressful event in their life. They may have had their argument with their spouse or a financial bomb dropped in their lap, or they're hungry or overslept, or at the end of a 12-hour shift. Like the more you can see the humanity in the other person that you are trying to dialogue with and bring it back to that level, the better this goes, or the higher the probability that it goes well. 

 

So is that a reasonable summary of kind of just maybe to end on the advocacy note there? Is there anything else you want to say about that?

Lori Simpson

It really is. We want we want to go in there and assume positive intent. Although we've lost a lot of our caring healthcare professionals through COVID and they're not coming back. But we start by assuming positive intent, even if it's not there. And that assumption can can take you a long way.

Christian Elliot

Yeah.

Lori Simpson

There's a whole nother podcast on not doing birth certificates and allowing the state to have control of your child, but that's for another day.

Christian Elliot

Yes, no. Hopefully this year I won't be doing that podcast in particular. So stay tuned, everyone, because I have I want to get into the CPS thing and all of this corrupt stuff everywhere I can find it and just shine some sunlight on it so that one, we're just more informed, and two, we can choose better. 

 

The more of us who have these conversations, the more this shifts, the more we peacefully opt out, the easier it gets to the system just gets choked of its life force. That's what's happening to public schools all around the country right now. As parents are like, you know what? I'm out. I'm going to private school, I'm going to homeschooling, anything but that. And the system's having a hard time sustaining itself. We can do the same thing in healthcare and anywhere else we want to just by putting our foot down kindly. 

 

It doesn't even have to be with anger, just putting it down and say, no, this is the line and I'm done. So Lori, you have been awesome and you're a wealth of knowledge. And I'm so grateful that you took the time to do this. I'm so grateful to have met you. This isn't just a story of, you know, a mom and a wife who has worked hard. It's a story of a human who's been through a lot. And I know this process and these processes have taken their toll on you and so many levels. So maybe you end it there.

 

 Like what other, what did we leave out? What human note, what um would you like to say? Is there anything else burning in you that you want to make sure we talk about before we call it a day?

Lori Simpson

Well, I'm definitely a home birth advocate. You are safest in your own environment. And I'd really encourage people not to be afraid to birth with trusted, trained individuals at home. Um, you know, I've had people convert from hospitals to home births, and I think they're going to be happier for it. 

 

And we go into the home with everything the hospital can offer you, with except for the epidural. And because you have someone sitting next to you, myself, a midwife, a midwife assistant, their eyes on you the whole time. And so if something is starting to turn, they know it way ahead of what a hospital would. And you are safe. And it is the best place for most um healthy women.

Christian Elliot

Very good. Yeah. Well, thank you. So if anybody wants to reach out to you or they're maybe near you and are interested in hiring you for their own pregnancy and delivery, how can people find you?

Lori Simpson

Well, I work in Maryland, DC, Virginia, and West Virginia. And my website, um, I don't have a website yet because I've been all about education, but uh my email address is um Serenity and Strength Holisticdoula.com. Lori at Serenity and Strength Holisticdoula.com.

Christian Elliot

Okay, great. Well, I will get that in the show notes. And then when your website is ready, I will update the show notes with that. So depending on when you're listening to this, that may already be in the show notes for you.

 

But um that's how you can get a hold of Lori. And I could not think of anyone in those four states who would do a better job giving you care and that I would trust more than her. So um, Lori, thank you so much for coming on the show today. It has been great having you.

Lori Simpson

Thanks for having me. Bye bye. Bye.