E15: Jordan Gundersen MH (Part 2)

An Herbalist's Perspective on Ways to Detox from the Covid Shots

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Christian Elliot

All right, welcome back, everyone, to the next episode of Deconstructing Conventional. My guest again is Jordan Gundersen. We are talking herbs and detoxification in this one. So in case you did not listen to our first conversation, Jordan is a master herbalist. He is a holistic iridologist and a bestselling author. So we're to do a whole episode in the future about iridology just so we can.

 

talk about that fascinating discipline. But today we're talking detoxification from the COVID shots in particular. So Jordan, as you know, we have been working on putting together as comprehensive and targeted of a detox guide as we can for these so-called vaccines. And one thing we found in common and pretty much all of the literature we've reviewed, the guides that have come out so far, is they're all mentioning herbs as part of the solution to this challenge that we're facing of helping people

 

heal and detoxify. And one of the challenges we've run into is just the advice seems to be all over the map. There's five or 10 or 20 herbs you can take. It doesn't feel very accessible. It doesn't feel like we know what to do with the information that says take pine needle or take garlic or take turmeric or whatever the herb is recommended. So we thought, why don't we just talk to an actual herbalist who understands what's going on and has some experience working in this realm. So.

 

Welcome to the show, Jordan. Thank you for making the time again.

 

Jordan Gundersen

Yes, thank you so much for having me on once again.

 

Christian Elliot

Right on. Okay. So before we get into specifics, I just want you to have an opportunity to tell your story. You have a very fascinating story of what you and your family went through, or even some of your clients went through related to COVID. So start there and that'll kind of set the table for the rest of the conversation.

 

Jordan Gundersen

Yeah. So in 2020, everybody knows that a pandemic was declared, but it seemed like what went around in 2020, as far as what people were catching was different than what happened in 2021. So I had people come to me in 2020 saying, oh, I got COVID, I tested positive for COVID, what do I do? And it was just like, go take some garlic, you'll be fine. And they were, it was really just like a cold flu type thing.

 

And now as we know, the PCR tests are bogus. But then once they started rolling out the shot in 2020, it seemed like what people were getting was very different. It seemed a little more severe. People weren't getting well. And if you remember back, that's when they started putting people on ventilators a lot more frequently. They started doing all these protocols in the hospitals that were very scary for a lot of people.

 

people would hospital and then they wouldn't come out. And I had a neighbor who got sick while he was at work, while he was traveling for work. And he came home and he was really sick and he didn't want to go to the hospital. And so he asked what could be done. And so I had just graduated from my herbal school and they had a set of protocols to have people do. so

 

We suggested some of those things to him and he did a few of them, but nothing was really making a dent. And so they went the alternative route at the time, which was to go get ivermectin. And at that time it wasn't very widely used. Not a lot of people were doing it. It was kind of just on the up and up right at the very beginning. And soon after that,

 

My parents got sick. We all live in the same neighborhood. And my parents started to have some of the big symptoms, know, the headache, the chills, the fever, the horrendous cough. And they were like, we're not going to the hospital. What do we do? And so I said, okay, since you're my parents, we can throw the kitchen sink at this. And we're just going to hit it with everything we've got. And so I started doing all of the protocols with them.

 

That was something that they wanted to do themselves. And so we started doing that and they didn't get any better. Nothing was improving. And the biggest complaints were that they couldn't sleep at night because they were just in pain and they were coughing so bad. And so then during the day they were just so exhausted and it was just wearing them down. And that was about a week and a half or so.

 

And then I started to get sick. And the common theme between or among all of us was that we had been with someone who had just been recently vaccinated when we started to get sick. And so I started to get sick. was still trying to take care of my parents and it started to get worse and worse and worse. And pretty soon my parents had been sick for almost three weeks and I've been sick for about a week and a half. And to me,

 

It felt almost spiritual. know it sounds weird to say that, but it felt like there was some kind of evil entity inside me, which was really scary to think about. And I lost my sense of smell, sense of taste. And there ⁓ were a few things that really were horrible to me to eat. Apples, oranges, apple cider vinegar was the worst thing in the world. It had like a metallic smell and taste.

 

which was really, really weird. I've never had that sensation in my life. Never had that sensation since being sick. And so my parents, when I was talking to them, they mentioned to me that my neighbor had gotten an ivermectin and he got better in three days. And I said to them, you know what, maybe that's what you should do. I don't know anything else to help you. And they said, okay, we'll try that. So they went and found someone who'd prescribe them ivermectin. And it's almost as if...

 

Right as those words came out of my mouth suggesting that that's what they should do, a light went off in my head. And I thought, well, ivermectin is a drug for parasites. And then President Trump had used hydroxychloroquine, which is a similar type of drug for malaria, which is often parasitical in nature. And so that got the gears working in my brain going, okay, maybe I could use herbs that do a similar thing.

 

get rid of parasites. And so I did some research and I found a combination of wormwood, cloves, and black walnut that's really, really potent for eliminating parasites. Come to find out later, this is actually a remedy that was used by Holda Clark. She was a natural healer a long time ago that believed that all causes of diseases are actually parasites. And so that's what she would use was wormwood, cloves, and black walnut. At the time, I didn't know that.

 

I just found that that was a really powerful combination. And so I thought, okay, I'm going to want to use something like that. And I was, but I didn't know at this point, I had been sick for almost two weeks and I was starting to lose my mental faculties. was starting to get really anxious, really scared, and I didn't know if I was going to make it. I'd never been sick like this before in my life. ⁓ No sleeping at night, heavy, heavy cough.

 

just pain everywhere and fever. It was just hard to get around, hard to do things. And so then I said one of the most earnest prayers I've ever said in my life. I said, God, if there's anything else that needs to be in here, let me know. And as soon as I ended that prayer, I knew what herbs to put in this little formulation and how much to the use of each and how much I needed to take.

 

I've been sick for a pretty long time. it was warm wood cloves, black walnut, an herb called chaparral, lobelia, burdock, and another herb called golden seal. And so I put those all together. I started taking it and I got better within two days. My parents, they started using ivermectin the exact same time I started using my own herbal formula. And it took them

 

over two weeks to get back to normal. They got over the acute stage in about three to four days, but then they still had headaches. had stomach pains, lot of digestive issues. And it wasn't until several weeks later that they were able to kind of get out of that. And I had, I was back to normal within just a few days. Two days, all the acute things were gone. And then on the third day I was back in the swing of things. And so,

 

We had that kind of test between the two. And what I think was really important was that chaparral. I didn't know much about it at the time, but come to find out later, it has a long history of use by the Native Americans from everything from coughs to cancer. That's what they would use it for. But it also is really good at chelating metals and helping with heavy metal toxicity. And I think that was part of the key for me. Wow.

 

Christian Elliot

story. Okay, so you've got this formulation that you somewhat maybe divinely downloaded, but you've got this formulation that's starting to work well for you. And then you start giving it to some other clients who have, you know, had similar experiences. So tell us about that. What kind of symptoms were they having? What was disappearing? Give me a little more story on how you started just testing out and working with this formulation you came up with.

 

Jordan Gundersen

Yeah. So initially I just started telling some friends and family about it. And then they would get sick and say, Hey, do you have, do you have any of this stuff? And so I make it for them. It tastes horrible. It's horrendous. It's one of the worst tasting things in the world, but they get the same results. That would usually be the case two to three days. They'd be feeling better. And then I wrote an article about my experience about that story. I shared.

 

Christian Elliot

you.

 

Jordan Gundersen

And it was for an herbal newsletter. And that just exploded all over the world. So then I had tons of people reaching out to me asking for that formula that I just, I just gave you one more clip, black walnut, chaperone, obelia, burdock and golden seal. And people said, Hey, can I, how do you make this? So I would tell them that and they would start making it on their own. And I had so many people email me back and say, Hey, that, totally worked.

 

Um, and I had some people, was, there was really interesting case. Uh, this actually happened to me twice where a woman had reached out to me cause they were sick to get some of this, um, formula and they started taking it and their husbands did not. The woman who took it got well really quickly. The husband ended up.

 

either in there was one case where the husband ended up dying and another case where the husband actually had a stroke and severe ⁓ issues from some of the hospital protocols. really interesting, also really sad that those things happened. But it was really interesting to see that in the case where the person was able to make that formula and use it, they were able to be okay.

 

Christian Elliot

Do you know the breakdown of how many people took the shots that were using your formula versus not? do you is it just you put that formula out and you're not sure how it all got used?

 

Jordan Gundersen

Yeah, I'm not sure how it all got used. Most of the people in my sphere didn't get the shot, although there were many people who did. They didn't really correlate any of their issues with having the shot, but they seem to get COVID more often. That's kind of how they'd say, I have COVID again. Well, I think that's because you got the shot.

 

Christian Elliot

Whatever that is, yeah.

 

Yeah. ⁓

 

Jordan Gundersen

But I also did have several people reach out to me who did have the shot and they wanted to know how to detox. And this was, you know, a year or two ago. And at the time, you know, we didn't really know much about what was going on or if there was a way to detox from it because the mRNA in this, you know, some people say that it programs your body to keep making the spike protein, which is unfortunate. But so anyway,

 

there were several people who reached out to me, one person who had some heart palpitations. She started to have heart issues after getting the shot and she was really scared, know what to do. And so I thought, okay, well, I believe that I got sick from somebody who had the shot, transmitted it to me. So maybe it will work specifically with some of these shot issues, these related issues. And so I gave her some of this formula.

 

And she came back to me in about two weeks and she showed me with her Apple watch ⁓ data that some of these issues she'd been having went away. She showed me before using this formula and after. And one of the issues she was having was her oxygen was dropping really low at night as well as her heart rate. But after using the formula, it went back up into normal ranges. I also had a relative of mine who got the shot.

 

and she started to have asthma afterwards. And so I gave her some of this formula. She didn't have to use her inhaler after using it. And so again, some of these herbs are not specifically, they haven't specifically been used for some of those issues like heart issues, like ⁓ asthmatic type issues, but it was getting to the cause.

 

Christian Elliot

I believe. Yeah. Well, even like we talked about in our last episode where you talked about the way that herbs are just a tool that the body can deploy. It's like if you have a toolkit, you can use it to build a house. You can use it to build a fort in the tree. You can use it to build whatever. it's like you're helping the body have natural resources to fight its own battles. And it sounds like booing health while there may be some specific mechanisms that are known or unknown. You're at least giving the body

 

resources to fight its battles. And sure enough, from respiratory to cardiovascular issues, even there, it seemed to make a difference. Is that a fair assessment of what you just said?

 

Jordan Gundersen

Yeah, absolutely. mean, some of these things are so important for the body to get well, to detox and not only to just do that, but also to strengthen and help build up the body. think that's something that often gets over.

 

Christian Elliot

Yeah, we're so focused on the symptoms. don't think wait, maybe the body can fight its own battle if we just give it a few resources to do that. Okay. So before we get I guess into specifics with ⁓ what's in the formula or what might be working or what different conditions it may be helping, ⁓ just zoom out for us a second and give us your perspective as an herbalist on the topic of detoxification in general. Where does it fit in the bigger picture? Is it

 

In your mind, is it kind of the first and best place to start? Or do herbs bring something else to the conversation later? Where do you start? And what's lost by not using herbs? So pick any one of those. Think about detox in general with herbs.

 

Jordan Gundersen

Great question. I think it kind of depends on the person. That's usually an answer for everything. But generally speaking, diet is the best place to start for most people. Cleaning up the diet, making sure you're getting lots of fresh fruits and vegetables. are things that are going to be naturally cleansing on the system. then using herbs to help facilitate that process is, I think, what's best. It's going to be really great for everyone.

 

depending on your, where you're at. If you already have a really good diet, then yeah, using herbs is going to be really key for you to help continue that process. But if you're eating like the standard American diet, lots of processed foods and junk, then you need to start working on that. Start training it up a bit. And that will really help start that process so that once you add in those herbs, it's not going to be like an overload.

 

Or you're not going to be like, well, it didn't do anything for me because oftentimes when we just have so much in our systems, it's really hard for herbs to have a chance to do what they need to do. Especially if you're taking like a little bit, for example, if you take a little bit of cascara Sagrada to help move your bowels, but you've got tons of junk inside your colon, that's going to be, it's not going to do much. Kind of know where you're at and then be like, okay, I need to clean up.

 

Christian Elliot

Yeah, so you have to.

 

Jordan Gundersen

my diet a little bit to help facilitate some of that. But if you're on the top end of the health spectrum, you're eating a really clean diet, but you don't know much about herbs, that's an area where you might be like, okay, I need to learn about some of these things that can help me detox my system. Because everybody today, I think, has a toxic load. We're surrounded by toxins everywhere we go. The clothes we wear, the products that we use for our hair, for our skin.

 

from our foods, our water, our air. We've just got toxic overload everywhere.

 

Christian Elliot

Yeah, well, and to your point, if we can't stop the inputs of what's creating the retox, I guess you could call it the things that are burdening the body, if we don't have that as a category of doing our part to diminish the inputs, then you're right, herbs aren't going to be that effective. But if we have an eye for these sources of body burden, and we, whether you're in good health or not, recognize that we are bombarded from birth to grave now, with things to glyphosate and ⁓

 

plastics, you could find in every single person's blood, you find metals in everybody's blood. And if we don't have the purging systems open, if they're not functioning, to your point, if we're not pooping, we're not getting these things after not breathing and sweating and doing the other things that the body does to clean itself out. If we can't get the exits open, it won't matter which herbs we're swallowing. But if we get that down, herbs are a potent weapon. Is that how you describe it?

 

Jordan Gundersen

Yeah, absolutely. They're so powerful to help us facilitate that process like we're talking about here. Another one I just thought of that I didn't even think to mention, because I don't think a lot of people think about it, is your water. You should be filtering your water. That's not really an herbal thing. But if your listeners don't know that you should filter your water, that's something, that's the very basic thing you should start doing.

 

Christian Elliot

Yeah, everything that exits your body has to leave through the medium of water. And if you're a dehydrated couch potato who doesn't ever sweat and get out of breath, you're going to have a harder time getting things out of you. So fantastic, Jordan. OK, so let's let's get more into these shots. So there's obviously, as you know, there's a lot of different theories about what is in them, what they're doing. And one thing we can say about them is they're just consistently inconsistent in terms of ingredients and what what we might be dealing with. So

 

One of the things we've had to do, and we've already kind of set the table a little bit, we, in approaching building a detox guide, we've had to step back and talk about the fundamentals of detox so we can cover our bases for the most plausible scenarios. But the more we've researched this, the more it seems like there's three potential mechanisms by which these shots are harming people and how it manifests or what symptoms are produced often depends on the individual, where they live, what they've been exposed to, their overall toxic burden.

 

wherever their weak links are in the chain. And so the things we've zoomed in on and what got me so excited when we first talked was that it seemed like you were maybe without even knowing it addressing all three of those. And so the three things we're thinking of is there's some some mechanism by which we can start dissolving these amyloid proteins, these, these awful looking fibrous clots that are being pulled out of people by mortician something that will help break that down and

 

You've already mentioned some improvement in cardiovascular symptoms and the woman's heart rate issues and things. The second thing that we realizing is in these shots to the degree at which we don't know, but metals. Some people have believed they found graphene in the shots, even Pfizer in the February, 2023 document dump. They admitted they were using graphene oxide. so to how prevalent of that or how much of it is there, we don't know, but aluminum and other trace metals have been found in them.

 

Not to mention the metals we have around us in our environment, dental fillings and so on. So first is the, the fibers clots or that what might be the spike protein producing these amyloid Lego like proteins sticking together. Then there's metals. And the third one, some people believe they found parasites or at least parasite eggs in these shots. When, if we understand the mindset of the people that would be pushing this, we have a framework, we have the means, will and intent to harm or to.

 

get rid of more people from the planet. And so is that what's happening is the more honest people I've talked to, the more you look into this, it's hard to say that's not what's happening. And it seems like they're, essentially testing different formulations, because there's there's different batches that have different problems associated with them. So what we thought of Jordan is just, can we take an approach to anything that might be effective in building healthy blood and giving the body the ability to break down proteins, something that would help us

 

He later detoxify metals without putting too much burden on the body and also give us a focus on parasites, which is where you kind of came into the picture with the, guess what you guys call herbalmectin, your ability to help the body just purge itself of these parasites or just parasites in general. So ⁓ one, did I capture that reasonably well? And can you tell me a little bit more about the formulation that you came up with and where it may be helpful for those specific areas?

 

Jordan Gundersen

Yeah, I think you did capture that very well. And when I first got sick and I used that formula, I started telling people that it felt like there was some kind of bioengineered metallic parasite that was inside me. That was back in 2021. I didn't have any basis for that. I'd seen a few things here and there, like whisperings of that kind of stuff, but I didn't.

 

have any kind of factual proof of that. It was just kind of a gut feeling. And I think now a little bit of that has been vindicated to some degree, because I do think that that's kind of what a lot of this is about. Personally, I think a lot of this has to do with the transhumanist agenda. any listeners know about that. ⁓ And I think you're right. I think they are testing several different kinds of

 

formulations or combinations of things to see what works and what doesn't. I don't think this is the be-all end-all. The right now is just getting people these COVID shots, but that's just a step to a bigger picture. anyway, when I put this together, ⁓ I found, like I mentioned, wormwood cloves and black walnut are all really anti-parasitic.

 

Christian Elliot

Yeah.

 

Jordan Gundersen

Now that's traditionally what they've been used for. That's one of their main uses. But what's interesting when I was doing some research on this is I found that they are effective for parasites at all three life cycle stages. So that was the reason why I wanted to put those three in because I thought, if there's parasites, you got to get them all at every life cycle stage.

 

Christian Elliot

And what are the life cycle stages for people who don't know?

 

Jordan Gundersen

It's the egg, the larva and adult, I believe are the three. And with the Chaparral, that was a really interesting one because according to one of the top herbalists ⁓ in the world, Matthew Wood, he says that one of the best things to overcome heavy metal toxicity is Chaparral. And I didn't know that at the time though. This was something I learned later on.

 

But Chaparral was studied quite extensively in the 80s. It mostly was studied for its potential in cancer use. And it was showing very promising signs to be used in cancer. And the Native Americans had used this for a long time. The Native Americans down in Mexico, Southwestern, the United States. And then in about the 90s, when the cancer research was kind of

 

taking off, the FDA put out a scare about chaparral. They found some cases where people had ⁓ found liver damage. They'd have liver issues. And so the FDA was like, whoa, you gotta be careful with chaparral. And so a lot of suppliers voluntarily took chaparral off the market. Now it's not off the market currently. You can go buy chaparral, but if you look up any research surrounding chaparral, all you're gonna find is the scary stuff.

 

You're to find studies that are not even studies. There's no studies on Chaparral. It's just case reports. So you'll find in PubMed, you'll go and find these case reports and you'll find, this person had liver damage. They had irreversible liver damage. But what's interesting is I was doing some, I really dove deep into this. I found that one of the reasons potentially why these people were having those liver issues was because they had heavy metals in their liver.

 

And the chaparral was pulling it out too fast and it was causing problems. And so when using something like chaparral, you have to support the liver because that's your main detoxification pathway. And what's interesting is I didn't know this at the time, but I put a nerve called burdock root in that formulation. And burdock root has shown at least in animal studies to increase the amount of glutathione produced by the liver.

 

which is a liver protecting compound. And so while you're using that Chaparral in this formulation, you're also protecting your liver with that burdock root. And so those are some of the things that are really important that I have seen personally with detoxing from some of these shots. But I think there are also some other things outside of just that formula.

 

like we call it herbalmectin. We use that as a joke. When it first came out, we call it HMCTN now. ⁓ And so I think there are some things outside of that that can really, really help, particularly for people who are kind of new to this.

 

Christian Elliot

No, what I like about you, Jordan, is you you've taken your oath seriously, you've you've recognized what's going on. And it's all hands on deck. And everybody bring their, you know, angle of what they're learning or what skills they have, what knowledge they have. And you didn't just make it a intellectual puzzle. You made it as a faith puzzle. was, to your point, you didn't know some of the effects of these herbs when you started using them. You just felt like you were impressed to start trying them out. And sure enough.

 

literature or the research that we can find backs you up and the number of people you've been able to help is also a major part of it. So I guess when you're trying to help someone, if somebody comes to you with a vaccine injury or what they believe to be a vaccine injury, where would you tell them to start and kind of walk us through whether it's acute and kind of there are some go to herbs or a chronic situation?

 

Help us start thinking ⁓ like an herbalist or other people listening to this. Maybe we have some herbalists or other doctors listening that can take some of what you said and they can connect other dots. So help us think like you would. And what's kind of on your short list of go-to herbs for maybe an acute situation or a more severe adverse reaction to a vaccine?

 

Jordan Gundersen

Yeah, great question. I think a lot of people listening to the podcast might already have some ideas or may have heard about some herbs that are good to help detox from the vaccine. And if that's you, what a great way to do to test that out is to try, try one in a tea. What I would do is I would make a tea out of one teaspoon out of whatever herb it is, pour one cup of water and try that.

 

see if there's any difference, see if you notice any differences. Because I had heard about a lot of those kinds of ⁓ herbs that are good for detoxing the vaccine. Pine needles was a big one. And I actually tried pine needles when I got sick because I was like, okay, well, I think I got sick from somebody who had the vaccine. So I probably have components of the vaccine inside me that's making me sick. So maybe if I use the pine needles for the shekemic acid,

 

maybe that's going to help me get well. So I tried that, pineal. Didn't do anything for me. So that was a good indication for me that that didn't work. That may work for somebody else who actually got the vaccine, but you'd want to try that out yourself. And I think the best way to do that is with the tea. So that's number one. If you've heard of something, try it out with a tea. If you're in that scenario, ⁓ go small. If you're worried about it, so start out with a small amount.

 

Again, like I said, one teaspoon for a cup of water, four cup of tea, that's a great place to start. And then maybe even increase that to, you know, like two to three cups of tea a day. So that's, that's where to start. If you're having a vaccine reaction in an acute sense, like if you just got injected and you're going through a reaction, I don't know if many people listening to your podcast are going to be in that.

 

⁓ If you are, something like plantain ointment or black walnut ointment right over the injection site, that's going to help to draw some of that stuff out and bring it back up and out of the bloodstream. Those kind of herbs internally will be good as well. So let's say it's not, you didn't just get the shot, but it's been a few days or weeks since. Plantain and black walnut.

 

are really traditionally they've been used for anti stuff. So antiviral, antiparasitical, anti-inflammatory, those kinds of things. Plantain in particular has a long use of infections. So with any kind of infection, plantain is gonna be really good to help the bloodstream. ⁓ Generally speaking, that's gonna be one of the best things to help clean the bloodstream, draw stuff out.

 

⁓ That's again, that's a big one. ⁓ Some other herbs that I think are top for chelating things, toxins, heavy metals, things like that. Cilantro, that's one that most people will have on hand. If not, you can go get it at the grocery store. Cilantro is really good for chelating heavy metals. Cilantro tea does not taste very good.

 

But that is a great way to get it into your system and have it pull stuff out. It's pretty mild, so it's not going to be a super heavy detox, ⁓ but it will over time help bring things out. Another really good one that I like is chlorella. Chlorella is an algae, and whenever you get chlorella, you want to get the cracked wall type of chlorella. It's better for the body to assimilate.

 

⁓ The cell walls of chlorella are pretty difficult for the human body to break down. And when you have the correct wall, chlorella, you can assimilate it a lot better. And so chlorella can help bind to toxins, whether it's heavy metals or it's any other kind of toxin that's in the body that shouldn't be there. So chemicals, pesticides, those kinds of things. The kind of chlorella that my family and I personally use is a type of

 

It's a 50-50 Chlorella spirulina. ⁓ Spirulina is another type of algae, which is also really good for chelating heavy metals. It chelates ⁓ different kinds of heavy metals. the tandem, those two in tandem can really help to get some of that stuff out. And when we think about getting heavy metals and toxins and poisons out of the body, we really have to think about

 

Well, where are they going? They're gonna go through our liver. So we gotta support the liver and they're gonna go through our bowels. So we gotta support the bowels. They also go through our kidneys and the urinary system. So we gotta make sure those things are clean and open. So using herbs that can help facilitate that is going to be important as well. Things like milk thistle. Milk thistle has long been used to help move bile from the liver to...

 

gallbladder and then into the digestive tract. ⁓ It also has shown to have the ability to protect the liver from damage. There are some preliminary studies that have shown that. And then also things like parsley root, juniper berries, those can help kidneys, those can help flush out the kidneys, make sure those are clean. And then of course we want to make sure that we're having regular bowel movements because if we're not,

 

then all that stuff that we're trying to keep it is just staying.

 

Christian Elliot

Yeah, so they're swirling around. Do you know of any ⁓ maybe end proteolytic enzymes or any plant that is good at dissolving for proteins like the amyloids or what may be these fibrous classes or anything you've come across that might be beneficial for that specifically?

 

Jordan Gundersen

There are certain things that can help, ⁓ at least from a holistic perspective. ⁓ Think about some of those things. Obviously, Chaparral, I think is a big, big part of that. It's not just for ⁓ heavy metals, like I've been talking about, ⁓ but another one of the things that they were studying with Chaparral back in the 80s was with ⁓ drug poisoning. Heavy drug users.

 

they would put people on that were using heavy drugs on chaparral and would actually help cleanse those things from their body. So really any kind of impurity, something that's not supposed to be there will help to facilitate out. Another great herb in my view is lobillia. And this is coming from a more philosophical ⁓ perspective rather than a clinical data perspective.

 

Lobelia has a long history of use for getting rid of blockages in the body. That's what it was historically used for, for many, many years in early American herbalism. so using Lobelia, and again, that's one of the herbs that was in my formulation. ⁓ What one of these uses is to get rid of blockages. so wherever there's a blockage in the body, Lobelia can help facilitate some of that.

 

Another really good one in my view is cayenne pepper. Cayenne is one of the best herbs for the whole system, for the blood, for the heart, for the whole body, really. If you take some cayenne pepper and put some in, just kind of sprinkle some in a bowl of water, what you'll see is the cayenne will diffuse out almost instantaneously. And that's kind of the same effect that it has inside.

 

body. will help to equalize blood all throughout. And so I've seen this with people. There's a guy by the name of Dr. John Christopher. He was a naturopath here in Utah where I am. And he used herbs exclusively in his practice. And one of the things that he taught was that a cup of cayenne tea will stop a heart attack within 30 seconds.

 

Christian Elliot

A cup? Like how much cayenne is in the cup?

 

Jordan Gundersen

one teaspoon per cup of water. So a teaspoon of cayenne in a cup of water, that'll stop a heart attack in 30 seconds. And I've actually personally seen that with someone who kind of knew these things about using herbs. They were having a heart attack and they said, go make me a cup of cayenne tea. And they drank it and it was gone.

 

Christian Elliot

Boil some water, pour it over a cayenne and you'll chug it down as soon as it's not too hot. Yeah. OK. So it's that it sounds like I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of the listener and make this as accessible as possible. So you've listed a lot of different herbs. And I guess one thing I hope people take away is that somewhere in here you're going to have to take responsibility for your own health. You're going to have to look into this, not just rely on somebody to tell you drink this, drink that or make this tea, swallow this pill. But

 

Jordan Gundersen

Right.

 

Christian Elliot

We're trying to give you breadcrumbs to a clue about what might actually help you. So have some courage. Try some of these things out. But is it oversimplifying, Jordan, just to say maybe take the six or so that you mentioned in your original formula or take two or three of these and just do that one teaspoon to one cup of water ratio and and see where it goes and see how your body responds and develop your own intuition. Is that a fair way to make this approachable?

 

Jordan Gundersen

Yeah, you know, I don't, we're not doctors. can't tell you what to do for yourself. Everybody's got to take that own responsibility. But if that were me, that's absolutely what I would do. I would definitely start out with chlorella and spirulina. That's a dietary thing that you can do. That's super simple, really accessible. Most people can do that. And then I would start trying out some of these things to try and pull that stuff out. ⁓

 

Plantain like I mentioned earlier that is has traditionally been used as a what we call a drawing herb It will draw things out of the body It will help the body to facilitate the exit of whatever is there that shouldn't be there For example when I was going to herbal school I had a nature path ⁓ One of my teachers was a nature path in California and he uses herbs exclusively in his practice

 

And he had somebody come to him that had a piece of glass stuck in his forehead. He'd had it there for several years. And he'd been in a bar fight years ago and somebody hit him with a beer can and it lodged a piece of glass in his forehead and it couldn't come out and he didn't want to do surgery. And so he said, do you have anything that's good for that? And this naturopath was like, yeah, sure. Let's try this plantain ointment. So he started putting plantain ointment on it every day.

 

And all of sudden one day he was sitting in his desk and

 

popped out of his forehead. And so that's kind of what plantain does, not just with things like glass, but with any kind of toxins or impurities that should not be in the body, it can help to draw it out and bring it out. And so plantain's a big one I would want to have in my medicine chest. If I had taken the shot, I'd want to use that and try to get some of that stuff out of there.

 

Christian Elliot

Okay, right on. Okay, so if somebody's listening to this, and they're thinking about kind of mustering the courage to do some of their own detoxing or help me manage expectations or help them know, like, one thing we want to avoid as much as possible is a Herc's response or like a cleansing response where the body just feels worse as they are trying to heal. And so managing that affects effectively, how are there any sort of principles you'd give someone around that? And how do they know?

 

when to ramp it up or when a particular detox has run its course? What kind of time windows or principles can you give us around that?

 

Jordan Gundersen

Yeah, that's a great question. I'm the kind of person that knows that whenever you're trying to heal, whenever you're trying to cleanse, it's going to get worse before it gets better. And so for me, I kind of want to do things in the smallest amount of time as possible without going too intense. And so I will try to lean into that kind of those detox symptoms, but that's just me. Not everybody's like that.

 

So a good general rule of thumb is to start out small and then work your way up. And if you go too much, bring it back down because herbs are not like medications or drugs. They're very mild in their effect. That's why we use them. And so if you want to get more of an effect, you're going to have to use more. But if you want less of an effect, just use less. So sometimes when you start having...

 

detox symptoms or side effects, they might seem like you just back off and usually the side effects will go away. There have been times when I've been using too much of an herb and I start to get kind of like a headache or something and I just stop using the herb and the headache goes away and it's not a big deal. But for some people who might have more of a toxic overload, you'll want to start small, work your way up and if you do too much, then just kind of scale it back.

 

Christian Elliot

Okay, yeah, it's refreshingly simple and intuitive when you recognize that, wait, I just listened to the cues my body's giving me. And in that sense, we can just develop a slow and steady or more rip the bandaid off approach, depending on what your body can handle, what your schedule can handle. And it doesn't need to be overly complicated. I love that. Okay, so one other question I have for you. I've got another ⁓ friend who's a naturopath.

 

traditional Chinese medicine doctor and really uses herbs quite a bit in her practice. And one of the things she talks about repeatedly is just the importance of building healthy blood and that that makes sense to me. The healthier the blood is, it's the matrix that all of these cells are nourished in. So what am I I on to something by saying some of this effort to detox or to create an environment where the blood is healthy and make perhaps less likely to be clotting like that or developing these fibrous clots?

 

would be just building healthier blood. am I onto that? Well, and is there anything else that you may not have mentioned when it comes to building healthier blood? Maybe there's something good for red blood cells or white blood cells or what's your perspective on that?

 

Jordan Gundersen

Yeah, absolutely. I think you hit the nail on the head there, actually. The blood is so important and our body will work so hard to make sure that it stays pure. me, I go back to a spiritual perspective. And the Bible, in the book of Leviticus, we read, for the life of the flesh is in the blood. And I know not everybody's going to appeal to the Bible or to think that as an authoritative source. However, there's a lot of good wisdom in the Bible, whatever your feelings are.

 

And it's interesting that we have four main organs to support blood. We've got the liver, the two kidneys and the spleen. Those are kind of the main supports for the blood. And what they'll do is they will filter all the impurities and they will take on all that junk to make sure that the blood stays pure. So yeah, you're absolutely right that the blood is so important. And not only

 

do those organs work to make sure that the quality of that blood is good, but the blood, the body itself will work to make sure that it stays in a really narrow pH range, right? And if our bodies get too acidic, it'll start to pull calcium from our bones to try and compensate for that, try to make it more alkaline, keep it within that really tight pH range. And so,

 

Herbs are naturally alkaline when we put them in our bodies. They will help to alkalize the body. So that's going to help, number one, but also there are many herbs that are really good for building the blood. The top one, in my opinion, is alfalfa. One of the interesting things about alfalfa is it has tap roots that go down like 25 feet or more into the soil and they pull all those minerals in and then

 

bring them up to the leaves. And so alfalfa is one of the best things to build the blood. That's one of the top herbs you can get. And alfalfa is really cheap, really easy to get. Just got to make sure it's not sprayed because it is an animal crop. So alfalfa is number one. Dandelion leaf is another really good one.

 

Christian Elliot

Is that the typical yellow flower that I got growing in my yard, the leaf off of that? Is that what you're talking about?

 

Jordan Gundersen

Yep. So don't spray your dandelions. Keep them. The root is really good for the liver. The leaves are really good for building good blood, good iron source as well. Stinging nettle is another really good one. That will mildly cleanse the blood, ⁓ but it'll also provide you a lot of nutrients to support and build good, healthy blood. Another really good one that we don't often

 

Christian Elliot

Please don't, yes.

 

Jordan Gundersen

think about as herbalists as sarsaparilla root. They used to make root beer out of sarsaparilla, which is interesting. But most people in the world have brown eyes. And if you have brown eyes, like we mentioned very beginning of the podcast, I'm an iridologist. And there's something about people who have brown eyes. They're often predisposed to having things like anemia, to not getting enough iron or not assimilating the iron that they do get.

 

And one the interesting things about sarsaparilla is it has a lot of iron, but it also helps the body to assimilate the iron better. And so if you have brown eyes, sarsaparilla might be a good herb for you. ⁓ That's going to help build your blood. It's also cleansing on the liver and the bloodstream in general. So that's a really good one. That's one I really like. Another herb that I've already mentioned is cayenne pepper. Cayenne pepper is actually more of a food

 

for the blood and for the heart. And so it's super, super potent. There's so many different uses for cayenne as well. The last one I wanna mention is Hawthornberry. Hawthornberry is amazing. It's really, really good for the heart. It's another food for the heart. ⁓ It helps with things like blood pressure, ⁓ heart rate, helping to build healthy blood. Those are things that it's been traditionally used for.

 

a long, long time. So Hawthorne is another really great.

 

Christian Elliot

Oh, man, fantastic list there, Jordan. Hopefully you guys are starting to hear this and recognize, well, shoot, I could eat some of this stuff. I can expand my horizons. I can go to the store or to the online resources or to my farmers market and my backyard with a new set of eyes and realize there's medicine and nature's got answers out there right in front of us. We just need to have courage to try and a little intuition to lead. So we've done our best in this episode to give you guys a springboard to say.

 

OK, there's something here. Let me make sure I got my detox pathways open. I'm eating well and then I can jump into using the wonderful world, the plant kingdom to give us more options. So, ⁓ Jordan, if somebody does not have access to an herbalist, they don't have the means to hire one or to personalize a plan or they just don't know where to find one. They came up dry at the farmers market. ⁓ Where would you tell them to begin if you had to boil it down into I've got some anxiety about taking these shots?

 

I want to do something. I don't want to overwhelm myself. I can't go out and get 20 herbs and start making tea. Like what, what's the most accessible, just start here and build some confidence. Where would you give, where would you nudge somebody in that scenario?

 

Jordan Gundersen

Yeah. So the first thing I would do is maybe look on Facebook, some groups of like-minded people who may already have done some of that work. Maybe know some people that you might be able to work with, or they may be able to point you in the right direction ⁓ as to maybe some specific questions that you have. You could ask them in the Facebook group, say, Hey, I've been thinking this. ⁓ What do other people here think about that? Those kinds of groups are great.

 

Telegram also has some great groups that's a little more friendly to ⁓ people like us. Another great thing to do is get some herbal books. There's so many different books. ⁓ Rosemary Gladstar, she's ⁓ a pretty popular herbalist. She has a lot of accessible things for a typical person who doesn't have much knowledge about herbs to start using.

 

Christian Elliot

Freedom fighters, yeah.

 

Jordan Gundersen

Matthew Wood is another great author. Christopher Hobbs, I know he has a ton of books that are pretty simple and basic. ⁓ Dr. John Christopher, he has a lot of really good resources as well. ⁓ So some of those authors might be some good books to have on hand, and those are gonna be things that you might refer back to pretty frequently. So I would definitely have some of those on hand if this is something that you wanna learn more about and learn more long-term about some of this stuff.

 

⁓ As far as finding someone, there is the ⁓ American Herbalist Guild. ⁓ I don't know if they have a kind of a directory of herbalists. They might have a directory of herbalists in certain states that you can work with. So those all might be some good resources to find.

 

Christian Elliot

Yeah, well, thank you for that. We've got a link to those in the guide as well, where you can go search a database and try to find an herbalist. And ⁓ to my dismay, I realize the herbalist guild has been kind of vacuumed up into some centralization or some woke ESG and DEI type of ⁓ agenda. just choose wisely. If you haven't listened to our last episode where he talked about some questions you can ask an herbalist or questions you would want an herbalist to be asking you, then go back and check out our last episode where

 

We got into that a little bit more, but two more questions, Jordan. First is, I, is there something I didn't think to ask you? Is there anything else you'd want to say that wasn't in my list of questions today?

 

Jordan Gundersen

Yeah, just relating back to the previous question, I mentioned the registered herbalist guild, American herbalist guild. Full disclosure, I'm not part of any kind of registering organization, any kind of certification organization, because I kind of believe those are a little bit pay to play. ⁓ I spent some time in a similar industry and so I know kind of how that all works. That doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to get the level of expertise that

 

might think. ⁓ And so really for people, you want to do your homework on a lot of stuff. That's kind the unfortunate place that we're in ⁓ is we kind of have to start doing some of these things on our own. And we to rely on our own knowledge. We have to take our health into our own hands. one other thing is ⁓ like we talked about some of these toxins and all these different things are continually around us. So in my view, it's

 

really, really important that we have some of this knowledge for ourselves and for our families. That's gonna make us more resilient to whatever else they have planned. And that's gonna ultimately be the biggest thing for each and every one of us.

 

Christian Elliot

Right. Right. And have books. Like, don't just rely on the Internet because that is being scrubbed of the information you would actually want. So have real books.

 

Jordan Gundersen

In my view, the older the book, the better. They'll often have things that have kind of been forgotten. I've referred to some older books and found really great wisdom that you just don't find today on the internet or even modern books written about the same subject.

 

Christian Elliot

Yeah.

 

Yeah, we've got one book about Native American plant medicines, and it's like two inches thick. It's just crazy how much wisdom they had because they were constantly surrounded by nature and they knew how to use what grew around them. So yes, get some books. And ⁓ okay, last question I have for you, Jordan is, just to make this more personal, emotional, get even get the spiritual realm, but what what would you say to someone who has, who's taken the shot and has a lot of anxiety about their health? ⁓ What kind of words of comfort or

 

perspective or expectations could you give them to just help them with the anxiousness about what may or may not be inside them?

 

Jordan Gundersen

Yeah, that's a great question. One of my heroes was Dr. John Christopher. I've already mentioned his name, but he was of the belief that there are no incurable diseases, just incurable people. And I've kind of adopted that as my own belief system, that there's nothing that's incurable. There's nothing that's unfixable. ⁓ It's really about our mindset. So if we think that

 

Oh no, I'm just going to be like this forever. That's probably what's going to happen. But if we take the view that no, there's, there's gotta be a way to reverse this. Then that's probably what you're going to find. That's kind of where me and my wife found ourselves when we first got into this world, is she had tons of health problems. And we were at a crossroads of believing what the doctor said as to if she was going to live much longer.

 

or if we were gonna take our health into our own hands and find a way out. And we chose the latter. We chose to find a way out and it took a lot of effort and it took a lot of experimentation. It took a lot of faith and a lot of courage, but eventually we found our way out. And I think that can be the case for every single one of the people who've taken the shot and are worried about it, but want to find a way out. I think they can. I think...

 

It's my belief that God provided everything that we would need to take care of ourselves. And so I think a lot of those things can be found in nature. We just have to be persistent about it and try some of these things, really take that health into our own hands.

 

Christian Elliot

Well, I don't think I can say it better than that. So, Jordan, thank you so much for the time today. If somebody wants to follow you, keep up with your work, maybe reach out, tell them where they can find you.

 

Jordan Gundersen

Yeah, if you want to find out more about what I do and follow me a little bit, you can reach me on Instagram at at the alfalfa mail or you can go to healthsaves.org. That's my website.

 

Christian Elliot

Right on. OK, I'll put some links to those in the show notes and hopefully we've given you guys a nice springboard and some confidence to go explore the wild world of herbalism. And Jordan, thank you again so much for your time today. It's been a pleasure talking to you.

 

Jordan Gundersen

Yes, thank you, Christian.